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Every Puerto Rican is an American citizen. Enjoy the Super Bowl. (lemmy.world)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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+5 Yes, Puerto Rico is widely considered a colony—or often described as the world's oldest colony—due to its status as an unincorporated U.S. territory. While residents are U.S. citizens, they lack voting representation in Congress, cannot vote for president,

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[–] 3 points 9 months ago (5 children)

I’m really not sure what “well integrated subculture” means or whether we should want it. Even a basic concept like “similar core values” gets messy before it gets desirable.

  • we all seem to intermingle, so maybe that’s well integrated.
  • People from different places still follow distinct practices, so are still a subculture.
  • we would be far poorer without the contributions from other cultures
  • for Mexican-Americans specifically, Mexican food has become core American in much of the us
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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    Well, the minimum of main culture aspects being supporting the democracy, a certain amount of tolerance for others with different opinion and looks, rule of law. "well integrated subculture" meaning people joining an already exisiting main culture in different ways, like immigrants and not being openly hostile to people with other opinions or looks who stem from other subcultures/backgrounds without proper reason. An indication of a failed integration are parallel societies within one country.

    Yes, I would agree with you that polite, nonviolent and maybe even friendly interaction is positive. The main culture aspect or fundamental understanding of the US society is problematic these days. One could even argue whether it's still exists. However, since there are many people who fight for it, you could at least argue that the idea still exists.

    "we would be far poorer without the contributions from other cultures" Very much debatable. There are so many positive AND negative aspects of it. People from the ends of the political spectrum see it in a contrasting manner. Pro-immigration people will biased towards positivity á la "enrichment" while contra-immigration people will be biased towards negativity á la "criminals and rapists". The truth is somewhere in between - both things can be true at the same time, often depending on the individuals and group dynamics. It's complex.

    The part about the food is very much true. The same thing is true for Turkish and Middle-Eastern food here in Germany and I very much enjoy it. An argument against it would be illegal immigration, human and drug trafficking, narco organizations, wage competition, wages without taxation and so on. On the other hand, you have great workers who value education for their kids, have good food, are sometimes lovely people, support the wobbly demographics and so on. I think we can all agree that your president and ICE are not a good solution for any of this though. It was never meant to be one.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    contra-immigration people will be biased towards negativity á la “criminals and rapists”. The truth is somewhere in between - both things can be true at the same time,

    Maybe but that specific reasoning is provably wrong, using actual crime statistics

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    The reasoning is that few immigrants - just like in the local population - will be committing criminal acts. I don't think the crime statistics show that there are no criminal acts committed by immigrants as well. But maybe I have misunderstood you. What exactly is your point?

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Crime statistics generally show immigrants charged for crimes at a same or lower rate than non-immigrants. There is no validity to the claim that immigrants cause crime.

    Immigrants appear to be people, doing pretty much what people do, and maybe keeping their head down to avoid unwanted attention

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago*

    There is no validity to the claim that immigrants cause crime.

    Actually, there is, because you've misunderstood what I was saying. We're kinda on the same page though. Immigrants WILL bring crime, because they're just as likely as any other group of people to commit them. Now, the question whether they bring any crime at all is a totally different one than the question asking whether they are more or less likely to commit crimes (statistically) than the native population.

    Crime statistics generally show immigrants charged for crimes at a same or lower rate than non-immigrants.

    Which crime statistic? Immigration is a complex topic and the impact on crime statistics hugely depends on who immigrates into which country and who lives there.

    If you ask left-leaning people to look at the historical immigration of European settlers to North America and the native population there, people will quickly say "Oh yeah, they were horrible! They came, raped, robbed and murdered the native population!", but if you ask them how they see modern immigration, they will magically say that it's all good and that all immigrants are good people and enrich the culture. Yet, those European settlers were immigrants as well (...). There is a huge bias towards how immigration is being seen there and it has something to do with the ideology you're being taught while you grow up. As I have said, the truth is much more complex and harder to grasp. And you really have to look at the statistics, because some biasses turn out to be true - and others do not.

    Some groups of immigrants may have a lower chance of committing crimes, others may have a higher chance of doing so.

    In Germany for example, immigrants have a significantly higher crime rate than German citizens (https://de.statista.com/themen/13642/auslaenderkriminalitaet-in-deutschland/#topicOverview) and the ratio of immigrants to citizens in criminal convictions has been rising for the last 6 years (https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/223/umfrage/verurteilte-straftaeter-nach-nationalitaet/). There are many factors to consider here, like citizens more likely to report the police to the crime of an immigrant, immigrants living in poverty or destitute conditions (making it more likely for them to steal for example), less availability of lawyers and legal assistance and so on. People from Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria were much more likely to commit violent acts - including rape - for example (https://www.bpb.de/themen/innere-sicherheit/dossier-innere-sicherheit/301624/migration-und-kriminalitaet/). While immigrants from Georgia and the African countries were more likely to commit acts of fraud or thievery.

    Things might look totally different for the USA, Brazil, Mexico and so on.

    It's factually true to say that immigrants always bring crime.

    It's factually false to say that immigrants always bring more crime than the native population.

    It's factually true to say that immigrants can commit more crime percentage-wise than the native population.

    It's factually true to say that immigrants can commit less crime percentage-wise than the native population.

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