RobotToaster comments on Piefed is cool! Lemmy is too! What's not cool? Infighting, it drives away new users. Unfortunately this seems a common sentiment...

The reply that @Shatur@lemmy.ml posted, that links here https://lemmy.ml/post/42415919/23664761 does seem troubling. They seem to be deliberately funnelling users to instances that block three of the most active Lemmy instances because they don't like the pinkos there.

(To be clear, I don't even like hexbear, I just think these decisions should be user controllable, the fediverse already has far too much defederation)

Those options would be far better if they were user controllable, I don't know why fediverse Devs seem allergic to giving users control of their own experience.

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[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 7 points 9 months ago (6 children)

It probably comes down what you expect the average new joiner experience to be.

Piefed.zip (and lemmy.zip) for instance gives the choice to the user. A message from the main .zip admin from a few weeks ago

Hey so I’m like a week behind here, but piefed.zip (and lemmy.zip) already blocks hexbear, lemmygrad, and lemmynsfw by default, and sends a PM to the user when they sign up to let them know why we do this, and how to remove it.

https://piefed.social/post/1649716/comment/9763199

I don’t know why fediverse Devs seem allergic to giving users control of their own experience.

I've seen first hand a vast majority of potential new joiners drop due the platform requiring too much configuration to be usable. I understand why some instance admin want to have "good defaults" so that new joiners would at least stay for a bit rather than saying "this whole thing is nonsense, I'll just stay on Reddit"

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[–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 5 points 9 months ago* (5 children)

The way .zip does it kinda seems ideal, having default block lists that can be disabled by users that want to once they are accustomed to the software. Is this a feature of piefed or something zip added?

But it also backs up one of my points, this rational system gets them labelled with "Defederation: Negligent" in the piefed onboarding flow. (Although I don't know how much that affects what order they appear in.)

I understand why some instance admin want to have “good defaults”

Good defaults are good, as long as they are just defaults.

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[–] Demigodrick@lemmy.zip 7 points 9 months ago (1 child)

I agree with you.

Piefed is great, but there is so much bias built into it. Say what you want about lemmy's devs, AFAIK there is none of their bias built in to lemmy.

The whole jump to piefed movement has not sat well with me. I get the extra features, but for it to really be something for everyone the dev has to consider their approach. Who knows what might be targetted next because the dev doesn't like it. (Hyperbole btw, but its akin to censorship)

Calling piefed.zip negligent because we give users control of their experience speaks volumes about either a poorly thought out system or a purposeful bias which shouldn't exist in federated services. At least add the csam or far right instances to it if its a genuine tool, or remove it entirely

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[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago

Some fair points here but don't allow the person you are responding to here warp the conversation with highly charged wording choices, possibly influenced by the very drama posts that OP was referring to (except in reverse).

I do not see the word "negligent" anywhere at https://piefed.social/auth/instance_chooser. I see only "Newbie-friendly" and "Choose your own adventure". Is there something wrong or negative (hehe, "negligent") about "Choose your own adventure"? Conversely, "Newbie-friendly" speaks to a playground like experience where even a former Redditor might be able to understand something - without having to bother to read anything at all, certainly nothing as complicated as my very own comment here🤪.

PieFed.zip is not "negligent", nor have I seen any hint or question that it ever might have been? There was concern that it might rather have been "Choose your own adventure" (and if so, then what would be wrong with that?) rather than "Newbie-friendly", but even that was cleared up in favor of the latter.

The person you are responding to is being negligent themselves (in their wording choice) if they are accusing piefed.zip of being negligent.

PieFed.zip is a wonderful instance and to anyone else reading, it is highly recommended by many people to check it out and then recommend it to others as a great default Threadiverse instance (as lemmy.zip likewise used to be, before PieFed's additional features eclipsed Lemmy's).

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[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Is this a feature of piefed or something they’ve added?

I'm not quite sure to be honest.

Hello @demigodrick@lemmy.zip, could you maybe provide some details?

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[–] Demigodrick@lemmy.zip 5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

Its a plugin so not default behaviour, although I solidly believe that it should be built in.

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[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 4 points 9 months ago

Thank you for the quick reply. I agree with you, that should probably built in both Piefed and Lemmy.

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[–] OpenStars@piefed.social 0 points 9 months ago

Misinformation item #1'

Piefed has hardcoded censorship?

No, it does not. It has options to censor things, if the instance admin so chooses. A simple click of a box in a UI can control this? (As just one possibility.)

Misinformation item #2:

They seem to be deliberately funnelling users to instances that block three of the most active Lemmy instances because they don’t like the pinkos there

Lemmy.ml is not blocked by default, and as people are saying there, this nonexistent block is also not hard-coded (chiefly since it does not exist, but also the blocks for hexbear and Lemmygrad are likewise not hard-coded, but again are options to select or not).

Btw, here is a post from 2 days ago made by a Lemmy.ml user to a lemmy.ml community, appearing on PieFed.social, the flagship PieFed instance. Can you please explain to me then how lemmy.ml is blocked by default, and that is hard-coded right into the software?

Misinformation item #3:

this rational system gets them labelled with “Defederation: Negligent” in the piefed onboarding flow.

No, it doesn't, nor was it ever thought to? For one, the word "negligent" does not appear anywhere in https://piefed.social/auth/instance_chooser (please do not take my word about any of this that I say here, look it up for yourself and see, but otherwise you are simply spreading someone else's disinformation) - what it says is "Newbie-friendly" vs. "Choose your own adventure", and PieFed.zip is clearly labeled as "Newbie friendly: Yes", and shows up when the selector has chosen Newbie-friendly rather than Choose your own adventure.

The word "negligent" is highly charged (enshittified?), but the wording "Choose your own adventure" is not, which anyway, again, does not even apply here to begin with?

There was a question about whether PieFed.zip was fully "Newbie-friendly", and if you look up hexbear's history you will see why. Especially when they were caught lying to other instance admins. They brought this censorship upon themselves, by refusing to moderate themselves and then harboring people engaging in trolling behaviors outside of their instance, effectively protecting those bullies. Hexbears are leftist MAGAs, and many people on Reddit legitimately cite having left the Threadiverse as a result of being exposed to such, making any instance that federates with hexbear not 100% fully "Newbie-friendly", and rather more "Choose your own adventure".

On the internet, people sometimes lie. You do not have to choose to repeat their lies elsewhere as if they were 100% true (without even so much as a "I heard that people are saying..."). Honestly I expect better from someone on mander.xyz.

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