▲ 497 ▼ Just baffling (lemmy.ml) submitted 1 year ago by jackeroni@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 138 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -23 points 1 year ago (30 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 30 child comments replies: [–] grue@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (4 children) Liberalism has always been a right-wing philosophy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -7 points 1 year ago No, it fucking has not. It is quite literally the definition of where "the left" begins. In the wake of the French revolution the liberals sat on the left side of parliament. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -13 points 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Even socialliberalism is still for capitalism, meaning it is right wing ideology. Not to mention every single time any declared socialliberal gets elected it turns out they are just ordinary neoliberal austerity ghoul. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children) Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism. They emerged together and the former was formed to justify the latter. Over the years it has branched out and there are many forms such as classical liberalism, neoliberalism, social liberalism, etc. but they all defend capitalist property rights and the market. Socialism emerged as the working class response to/critique of liberalism. In the US the term only refers to social liberals, who are in reality centrists. Americans call them leftists only because centrists are slightly to the left of right-wing politics. We're against liberalism as a whole because it's the ideology that justifies capitalism. We're against social liberals because they're seen as fence-sitting cowards and dangerous compromisers. This is a very introductory overview to liberalism: Taimur Rahman - Introduction to classical liberalism - John Locke The most in-depth delving into it is Losurdo's Liberalism - A counter history, but you'd have to read many more foundational texts before that one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -4 points 1 year ago It should be the other way around that capitalism was created to justify liberalism because you have liberal philosophers writing decades to centuries before the capitalists. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -9 points 1 year ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) How many books on this topic have you read? Are you aware of the conflicts between liberals and workers, prisoners, women, and colonized people for over 200 years? Do you know the history of the working class movement and its history of conflicts with liberals since the mid 1800s? Any one of us can answer these questions. You clearly can't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -7 points 1 year ago You read books but do you read current news? Most of the world is still debating if they should be free of the government which is a binary that very much places liberalism on the left. Why are you holding such a Eurocentric perspective in face of the fact that most are not having the anticapitalist vs capitalist discussion you seem to think they are having? permalink fedilink source parent [–] merdaverse@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) the right to private property Wow that sounds sooo leftist. I think you're about 150 years late in defining liberalism as "the left" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago Capitalism is right-wing; socialism is left-wing. Private property is not about your toothbrush or house, it’s about private ownership of the means of production, which is what capitalism is founded on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their use for the purpose of obtaining profit. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (5 children) Liberals -> want the means of production to remain privatized aka capitalism Leftists -> want the means of production to be publicly owned aka socialism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -8 points 1 year ago (4 children) That presumes the binary is focused on economy when most nations are still debating freedom from the government and thus liberalism should be the start of the left. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children) This presumes the liberal view that liberalism is truly "freedom from the government" whatever that means(it's not) and that such a thing is a requirement for a leftist position (it's not) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) And you are presuming the discussions being had are about capitalism when they are still debating the role of the government in private ownership. It’s a eurocentric position. It’s odd how many “leftists” fall into this. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago oh my god we get it you learned the word 'presume' last week permalink fedilink source parent [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago most nations are still debating freedom from the government citation needed permalink fedilink source parent [–] reagansrottencorpse@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (7 children) We just have a more nuanced understanding of politics than you do. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -5 points 1 year ago No, you are using a different binary and I would argue you are using the incorrect binary as most are not dividing over support for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -14 points 1 year ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] grue@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (3 children) You are factually incorrect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -10 points 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] grue@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago My other reply to you was literally entirely composed of a supporting link. Quit being disingenuous. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) we just had a coalition of liberals, "social"democrats and greens here in Germany. Believe me no one thinks that liberals are left of center. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago The "other group labelling themselves socialist" is literally the SPD but go off. You have no clue about socialism or its history, so I'm curious according to whose definition social liberalism or democratic liberalism is left of center. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I just wish that people here would take time to explain why liberals are not left instead of just attacking you. Liberalism is not left because by definition they are socially progressive but economically conservative. I used to think the liberals are "left" because of the Americam mainstream media (by intentionally muddying political terms) interchange liberal between left. But thanks to Philosophy Tube's beginner's video explaining what it means, now I know better. permalink fedilink source parent [+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -6 points 1 year ago They are taking a frankly eurocentric perspective which presumes the debate is anticapitalism vs capitalism when I would posit that most nations are still debating liberalism vs authoritarianism hence the claim that they are eurocentric as the binary only makes sense for Europe. permalink fedilink source parent [+] MantisWaffle@lemmy.world -8 points 1 year ago (2 children) You're arguing with people on lemmy.ml. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MantisWaffle@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (1 child) Just good to keep in mind you're arguing with communists about idelogy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago Wow. Helping someone for free. Terrible at being a lib. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] grue@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (4 children) Liberalism has always been a right-wing philosophy permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -7 points 1 year ago No, it fucking has not. It is quite literally the definition of where "the left" begins. In the wake of the French revolution the liberals sat on the left side of parliament. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -13 points 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Even socialliberalism is still for capitalism, meaning it is right wing ideology. Not to mention every single time any declared socialliberal gets elected it turns out they are just ordinary neoliberal austerity ghoul. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -7 points 1 year ago No, it fucking has not. It is quite literally the definition of where "the left" begins. In the wake of the French revolution the liberals sat on the left side of parliament. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -13 points 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Even socialliberalism is still for capitalism, meaning it is right wing ideology. Not to mention every single time any declared socialliberal gets elected it turns out they are just ordinary neoliberal austerity ghoul. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (2 replies)
[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago Even socialliberalism is still for capitalism, meaning it is right wing ideology. Not to mention every single time any declared socialliberal gets elected it turns out they are just ordinary neoliberal austerity ghoul. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children) Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism. They emerged together and the former was formed to justify the latter. Over the years it has branched out and there are many forms such as classical liberalism, neoliberalism, social liberalism, etc. but they all defend capitalist property rights and the market. Socialism emerged as the working class response to/critique of liberalism. In the US the term only refers to social liberals, who are in reality centrists. Americans call them leftists only because centrists are slightly to the left of right-wing politics. We're against liberalism as a whole because it's the ideology that justifies capitalism. We're against social liberals because they're seen as fence-sitting cowards and dangerous compromisers. This is a very introductory overview to liberalism: Taimur Rahman - Introduction to classical liberalism - John Locke The most in-depth delving into it is Losurdo's Liberalism - A counter history, but you'd have to read many more foundational texts before that one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -4 points 1 year ago It should be the other way around that capitalism was created to justify liberalism because you have liberal philosophers writing decades to centuries before the capitalists. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -9 points 1 year ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) How many books on this topic have you read? Are you aware of the conflicts between liberals and workers, prisoners, women, and colonized people for over 200 years? Do you know the history of the working class movement and its history of conflicts with liberals since the mid 1800s? Any one of us can answer these questions. You clearly can't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -7 points 1 year ago You read books but do you read current news? Most of the world is still debating if they should be free of the government which is a binary that very much places liberalism on the left. Why are you holding such a Eurocentric perspective in face of the fact that most are not having the anticapitalist vs capitalist discussion you seem to think they are having? permalink fedilink source parent [–] merdaverse@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) the right to private property Wow that sounds sooo leftist. I think you're about 150 years late in defining liberalism as "the left" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago Capitalism is right-wing; socialism is left-wing. Private property is not about your toothbrush or house, it’s about private ownership of the means of production, which is what capitalism is founded on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their use for the purpose of obtaining profit. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -4 points 1 year ago It should be the other way around that capitalism was created to justify liberalism because you have liberal philosophers writing decades to centuries before the capitalists. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -9 points 1 year ago (4 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) How many books on this topic have you read? Are you aware of the conflicts between liberals and workers, prisoners, women, and colonized people for over 200 years? Do you know the history of the working class movement and its history of conflicts with liberals since the mid 1800s? Any one of us can answer these questions. You clearly can't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -7 points 1 year ago You read books but do you read current news? Most of the world is still debating if they should be free of the government which is a binary that very much places liberalism on the left. Why are you holding such a Eurocentric perspective in face of the fact that most are not having the anticapitalist vs capitalist discussion you seem to think they are having? permalink fedilink source parent [–] merdaverse@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) the right to private property Wow that sounds sooo leftist. I think you're about 150 years late in defining liberalism as "the left" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago Capitalism is right-wing; socialism is left-wing. Private property is not about your toothbrush or house, it’s about private ownership of the means of production, which is what capitalism is founded on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their use for the purpose of obtaining profit. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) How many books on this topic have you read? Are you aware of the conflicts between liberals and workers, prisoners, women, and colonized people for over 200 years? Do you know the history of the working class movement and its history of conflicts with liberals since the mid 1800s? Any one of us can answer these questions. You clearly can't. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -7 points 1 year ago You read books but do you read current news? Most of the world is still debating if they should be free of the government which is a binary that very much places liberalism on the left. Why are you holding such a Eurocentric perspective in face of the fact that most are not having the anticapitalist vs capitalist discussion you seem to think they are having? permalink fedilink source parent
[+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -7 points 1 year ago You read books but do you read current news? Most of the world is still debating if they should be free of the government which is a binary that very much places liberalism on the left. Why are you holding such a Eurocentric perspective in face of the fact that most are not having the anticapitalist vs capitalist discussion you seem to think they are having? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] merdaverse@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 year ago (1 child) the right to private property Wow that sounds sooo leftist. I think you're about 150 years late in defining liberalism as "the left" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago Capitalism is right-wing; socialism is left-wing. Private property is not about your toothbrush or house, it’s about private ownership of the means of production, which is what capitalism is founded on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their use for the purpose of obtaining profit. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago Capitalism is right-wing; socialism is left-wing. Private property is not about your toothbrush or house, it’s about private ownership of the means of production, which is what capitalism is founded on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their use for the purpose of obtaining profit. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago Capitalism is right-wing; socialism is left-wing. Private property is not about your toothbrush or house, it’s about private ownership of the means of production, which is what capitalism is founded on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their use for the purpose of obtaining profit. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (5 children) Liberals -> want the means of production to remain privatized aka capitalism Leftists -> want the means of production to be publicly owned aka socialism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -8 points 1 year ago (4 children) That presumes the binary is focused on economy when most nations are still debating freedom from the government and thus liberalism should be the start of the left. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children) This presumes the liberal view that liberalism is truly "freedom from the government" whatever that means(it's not) and that such a thing is a requirement for a leftist position (it's not) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) And you are presuming the discussions being had are about capitalism when they are still debating the role of the government in private ownership. It’s a eurocentric position. It’s odd how many “leftists” fall into this. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago oh my god we get it you learned the word 'presume' last week permalink fedilink source parent [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago most nations are still debating freedom from the government citation needed permalink fedilink source parent
[+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -8 points 1 year ago (4 children) That presumes the binary is focused on economy when most nations are still debating freedom from the government and thus liberalism should be the start of the left. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children) This presumes the liberal view that liberalism is truly "freedom from the government" whatever that means(it's not) and that such a thing is a requirement for a leftist position (it's not) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) And you are presuming the discussions being had are about capitalism when they are still debating the role of the government in private ownership. It’s a eurocentric position. It’s odd how many “leftists” fall into this. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago oh my god we get it you learned the word 'presume' last week permalink fedilink source parent [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago most nations are still debating freedom from the government citation needed permalink fedilink source parent
[–] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children) This presumes the liberal view that liberalism is truly "freedom from the government" whatever that means(it's not) and that such a thing is a requirement for a leftist position (it's not) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) And you are presuming the discussions being had are about capitalism when they are still debating the role of the government in private ownership. It’s a eurocentric position. It’s odd how many “leftists” fall into this. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago oh my god we get it you learned the word 'presume' last week permalink fedilink source parent
[–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) And you are presuming the discussions being had are about capitalism when they are still debating the role of the government in private ownership. It’s a eurocentric position. It’s odd how many “leftists” fall into this. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago oh my god we get it you learned the word 'presume' last week permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago oh my god we get it you learned the word 'presume' last week permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago most nations are still debating freedom from the government citation needed permalink fedilink source parent
[–] reagansrottencorpse@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (7 children) We just have a more nuanced understanding of politics than you do. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -5 points 1 year ago No, you are using a different binary and I would argue you are using the incorrect binary as most are not dividing over support for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -14 points 1 year ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] grue@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (3 children) You are factually incorrect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -10 points 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] grue@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago My other reply to you was literally entirely composed of a supporting link. Quit being disingenuous. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) we just had a coalition of liberals, "social"democrats and greens here in Germany. Believe me no one thinks that liberals are left of center. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago The "other group labelling themselves socialist" is literally the SPD but go off. You have no clue about socialism or its history, so I'm curious according to whose definition social liberalism or democratic liberalism is left of center. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -5 points 1 year ago No, you are using a different binary and I would argue you are using the incorrect binary as most are not dividing over support for capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -14 points 1 year ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] grue@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (3 children) You are factually incorrect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -10 points 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] grue@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago My other reply to you was literally entirely composed of a supporting link. Quit being disingenuous. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) we just had a coalition of liberals, "social"democrats and greens here in Germany. Believe me no one thinks that liberals are left of center. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago The "other group labelling themselves socialist" is literally the SPD but go off. You have no clue about socialism or its history, so I'm curious according to whose definition social liberalism or democratic liberalism is left of center. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] grue@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (3 children) You are factually incorrect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -10 points 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] grue@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago My other reply to you was literally entirely composed of a supporting link. Quit being disingenuous. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -10 points 1 year ago (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] grue@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago My other reply to you was literally entirely composed of a supporting link. Quit being disingenuous. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (2 replies)
[–] grue@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago My other reply to you was literally entirely composed of a supporting link. Quit being disingenuous. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 child) we just had a coalition of liberals, "social"democrats and greens here in Germany. Believe me no one thinks that liberals are left of center. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago The "other group labelling themselves socialist" is literally the SPD but go off. You have no clue about socialism or its history, so I'm curious according to whose definition social liberalism or democratic liberalism is left of center. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago* (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago The "other group labelling themselves socialist" is literally the SPD but go off. You have no clue about socialism or its history, so I'm curious according to whose definition social liberalism or democratic liberalism is left of center. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago The "other group labelling themselves socialist" is literally the SPD but go off. You have no clue about socialism or its history, so I'm curious according to whose definition social liberalism or democratic liberalism is left of center. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I just wish that people here would take time to explain why liberals are not left instead of just attacking you. Liberalism is not left because by definition they are socially progressive but economically conservative. I used to think the liberals are "left" because of the Americam mainstream media (by intentionally muddying political terms) interchange liberal between left. But thanks to Philosophy Tube's beginner's video explaining what it means, now I know better. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works -6 points 1 year ago They are taking a frankly eurocentric perspective which presumes the debate is anticapitalism vs capitalism when I would posit that most nations are still debating liberalism vs authoritarianism hence the claim that they are eurocentric as the binary only makes sense for Europe. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] MantisWaffle@lemmy.world -8 points 1 year ago (2 children) You're arguing with people on lemmy.ml. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MantisWaffle@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (1 child) Just good to keep in mind you're arguing with communists about idelogy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago Wow. Helping someone for free. Terrible at being a lib. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MantisWaffle@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (1 child) Just good to keep in mind you're arguing with communists about idelogy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago Wow. Helping someone for free. Terrible at being a lib. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MantisWaffle@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (1 child) Just good to keep in mind you're arguing with communists about idelogy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago Wow. Helping someone for free. Terrible at being a lib. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago Wow. Helping someone for free. Terrible at being a lib. permalink fedilink source parent