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[+] -23 points 1 year ago (30 children)
  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)
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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism. They emerged together and the former was formed to justify the latter. Over the years it has branched out and there are many forms such as classical liberalism, neoliberalism, social liberalism, etc. but they all defend capitalist property rights and the market. Socialism emerged as the working class response to/critique of liberalism. In the US the term only refers to social liberals, who are in reality centrists. Americans call them leftists only because centrists are slightly to the left of right-wing politics.

    We're against liberalism as a whole because it's the ideology that justifies capitalism. We're against social liberals because they're seen as fence-sitting cowards and dangerous compromisers.


    This is a very introductory overview to liberalism:

    The most in-depth delving into it is Losurdo's Liberalism - A counter history, but you'd have to read many more foundational texts before that one.

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  • [+] -9 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    How many books on this topic have you read? Are you aware of the conflicts between liberals and workers, prisoners, women, and colonized people for over 200 years? Do you know the history of the working class movement and its history of conflicts with liberals since the mid 1800s?

    Any one of us can answer these questions. You clearly can't.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago

    You read books but do you read current news? Most of the world is still debating if they should be free of the government which is a binary that very much places liberalism on the left.

    Why are you holding such a Eurocentric perspective in face of the fact that most are not having the anticapitalist vs capitalist discussion you seem to think they are having?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    the right to private property

    Wow that sounds sooo leftist. I think you're about 150 years late in defining liberalism as "the left"

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  • [+] -5 points 1 year ago (1 child)
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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Liberals -> want the means of production to remain privatized aka capitalism Leftists -> want the means of production to be publicly owned aka socialism

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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    That presumes the binary is focused on economy when most nations are still debating freedom from the government and thus liberalism should be the start of the left.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    This presumes the liberal view that liberalism is truly "freedom from the government" whatever that means(it's not) and that such a thing is a requirement for a leftist position (it's not)

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    And you are presuming the discussions being had are about capitalism when they are still debating the role of the government in private ownership.

    It’s a eurocentric position. It’s odd how many “leftists” fall into this.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    We just have a more nuanced understanding of politics than you do.

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  • [+] -14 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    we just had a coalition of liberals, "social"democrats and greens here in Germany. Believe me no one thinks that liberals are left of center.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I just wish that people here would take time to explain why liberals are not left instead of just attacking you.

    Liberalism is not left because by definition they are socially progressive but economically conservative.

    I used to think the liberals are "left" because of the Americam mainstream media (by intentionally muddying political terms) interchange liberal between left. But thanks to Philosophy Tube's beginner's video explaining what it means, now I know better.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago

    They are taking a frankly eurocentric perspective which presumes the debate is anticapitalism vs capitalism when I would posit that most nations are still debating liberalism vs authoritarianism hence the claim that they are eurocentric as the binary only makes sense for Europe.

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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You're arguing with people on lemmy.ml.

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