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turntables how (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/peoplebluesky@lemmy.world
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https://bsky.app/profile/robertcruickshank.com/post/3lsqyba3dec2m

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[–] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (15 children)

Very true. Most Americans don't know actually what socialism is, it's just a synonym for "bad." I don't think anyone that describes themselves as one is going to do well with most US electorates, even though the tenets of socialism line up pretty well with their actual beliefs.

The DNC is corrupt and sucks, but they're right to fear this association. If they embraced the socialist messaging today at the party level, they'd likely lose every election outside of the major metro areas and become even more irrelevant than they already are.

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  • [–] [S] 17 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    That mentality is why trump is in office again. If they didn’t keep embracing the corrupt neoliberal “we stand for nothing” vision, they might be able to salvage the party.

    Back the blue no matter what, unless… is a joke. The DNC needs to work for the people, not the other way around.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

    No argument there, but messaging is important to be effective. Most US voters are going to reflexively balk at the word "socialist" and will stop listening to anything else being said. It's unfortunate, but it's reality.

    I think they'd actually agree with the tenets of socialism if they could get past the reflex though. For example, if "owning the means of production" were packaged as, "a fair share" they'd be more likely to listen. Silly, but you have to meet people where they are to be effective.

    Mamdani talking about issues everyone but the rich would agree with is great, and I'm happy to see the upswell of support for it. I still think he'd lose in most other places in the US though, the word "socialist" just carries too much of a stigma outside the major metro areas.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    That’s why the message of socialism needs to talked about and use the actual word socialism. Stop the limp messaging and be bold or continue to embrace lying to your base (both parties guilty).

    The ruling class would prefer you to keep using “socialism” in quotes

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

    That's a nice sentiment, but it would have to overcome 100+ years of indoctrination that socialism==bad on top of the avalanche of attacks from the powers that be. Those attacks are going to come regardless, so insisting on playing hard mode by using the word socialist isn't likely to result in good outcomes.

    I'd rather see the tenets of socialism win by another name, frankly. The outcome is a lot more important than the word.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    None of that offers any direction or a path to change. It is limp messaging that say well maybe someone somehow can grow change in a system designed to squash dissenting ideas.

    People need an actual positive direction to head. You’re just repeating the talking points that have not done anything for people and keep the conversation in a safe place for the political elites.

    This is “thoughts & prayers” for socialism and its screams complacency

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    It's really not, and you can look at Trump as the perfect example. He came out and said all the awful shit that Nazis and Klan members believed but rebranded it as MAGA. Socialists could do the same thing, so easily. Just pick a new phrase/word and keep almost everything other tenet the same. Call it "Liberty Forever" and talk about how mandatory profit sharing "guarantees your right to work and access to a free market." It would be so fucking effective.

    Messaging is important.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Messaging is important and “Liberty Forever” sounds like another Ponzi scheme instead of just cutting the bs and being honest. Distrust is a major issue and adding convoluted layers to messaging that isn’t helping. It’s like saying the economy is great while people can’t afford anything get pissed and disagree. Economy as defined has little to do with quality of life. Most people don’t understand economy != quality of life. See DNC 2024. Trying to smoke & mirror your message is dishonest and will ultimately fail.

    Cut the layers of bullshit and be honest. It worked in the NYC primary and you’d have to be a fool (or disingenuous) to throw that data wayside

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You're giving way too much credit to like, 60% of the country. A wide majority of voters do not respond logically, they respond emotionally. NYC is a tiny fraction of the voting population, and assuming that the messaging used there will work in most of the rest of the country is silly.

    Gotta meet people where they are man, and purity doesn't sell as well as familiarity. Disregarding reality handicaps a movement.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It seems like you think that all of America is similar to NYC, during a mayoral race against a famously shitty incumbent. Otherwise, idk why you would post that image.

    If you ran a candidate for the Democratic Socialist party in every mayoral race in America, I would bet hard cash that better than 90% of them would lose. They wouldn't lose because of their ideas or policies, they'd lose because they picked a party name that will terminate thought for >60% of the voting population.

    Maybe after another 2 decades of slowly getting Democratic Socialists into office you could move that needle. In that time, the facists are going to burn all of this down, so I really don't see any** advantage in sticking with the name. We need these policies now and idc how we get them.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I think its super important to seperate completely from the DNC as they have poisoned the well with working people, and a socialist party needs to be completely seperate from bourgeois politcs period and make it a point to clarify that they are not a bourgeois or corporate party, no hollywood aristocrats just working american messaging. Right now is the time to trash the dnc entirely and as a sign of good faith we should prob even seek to charge and jail dnc party leaders like pelosi on insider trading etc.

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