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[–] 15 points 10 months ago (8 children)

As soon as society refuses to adequately intervene to stop the harm, any degree of harm justifies any level of force necessary to end that harm. Your position is only valid so long as society is willing to intercede on behalf of the victim.

The content in question also isn’t actually them.

The content in question is harassment at a minimum. It is harm. Serious harm.

Being violent just because your feeling are hurt is barbaric and has no place in a society.

So long as society is willing to intercede against the harm caused by harassers, I agree. Here, that intercession was explicitly denied. The school refused to act. The school failed to even separate or supervise the two parties. Consequently, society lost its ethical justification for criticizing the victim's efforts to end her victimization. With the school failing to act reasonably or responsibly, we don't get to criticize the victim's actions.

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  • [+] -4 points 10 months ago* (8 children)
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    So if a man is hurt by a woman and the world doesn’t stop that harm, is any degree of harm justified and any level of force necessary to end that harm, justified?

    Yes.

    Society fails at justice

    I see the problem. You are conflating "stopping harm" with "justice". There is a massive difference between the two concepts, and we aren't talking about justice here.

    Asking police to stop the woman from keying his car is an attempt to stop harm. Asking the prosecutor to charge her with destruction of property is an attempt to seek justice. You described a scenario where the woman is actively harming the man. He is, indeed, justified in using any level of force necessary to end that harm. You did not describe a scenario where the woman has previously caused harm, but is no longer doing so.

    Keep in mind that the boy on the bus was actively engaged in harassing his victim at the time his victim used physical force against him. She was not attempting to retaliate for past harms; she was not attempting to seek justice. She was attempting to end the harm he was in the process of perpetrating.

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  • [+] -3 points 10 months ago (7 children)
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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Not quite. You shortened the phrase. You dropped five critical words that were present in the original phrase:

    and any level of force necessary to end that harm

    Further, you're dishonestly relying on a colloquial definition of "harm", rather than a legal one. "Rejection" does not qualify.

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  • [+] -2 points 10 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    We're at the point of the conversation where you recognize her actions in these specific circumstances were at least understandable, if not reasonable and rational. We're at the point of the conversation where you acknowledge she was the victim. We're at the point in the conversation where you acknowledge the school failed to properly supervise her and her harasser on the bus, and erred greatly in their disciplinary action.

    We're at the point where you point out that violence is not acceptable, but that given his actions and the multiple failures of the school pushed her to do something that she would not normally do, and should not have been punished for.

    We're at the point in the conversation where you recognize you have been improperly assigning excessive blame to the victim, and decide to delete, or at least amend your previous arguments to portray yourself as a reasonable person.

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  • [+] -2 points 10 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (3 children)

    Perhaps you should stop blaming the victim.

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  • [+] 0 points 10 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (2 children)

    Indeed. Why would we not blame the school and the harasser for creating this situation?

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  • [+] 0 points 10 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    Indeed. Let us quantify that:

    • What percentage of the total blame for the physical altercation should be assigned to the harasser?
    • What percentage of the total blame for the physical altercation should be assigned to the school?
    • What percentage of the total blame for the physical altercation should be assigned to the girl?
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  • [+] -1 points 10 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    Yes, indeed. Quantify your position, please. How much responsibility for the physical altercation does each party bear?

    I would say that the boy is primarily responsible for the altercation. Without his egregious, deplorable, and criminal harassment instigating her response, there would have been no altercation. That translates to 51% to 100% of the blame.

    The school bears secondary responsibility. The school acts in loco parentis. They are obligated to adequately supervise and protect their students. Here, they put harasser and victim, unsupervised, in close proximity to eachother. That is completely unreasonable. That translates to 0% to 49% of the blame.

    The girl's responsibility is less than that of the school. She was suffering undue sexual harassment. She reasonably asked for relief from that harassment, and her requests were refused by the school charged with providing that relief. She was under duress at the time of the altercation. With those factors, full and sole responsibility cannot be assigned to her. That translates to 0% to 24% of the blame.

    Do you believe she bears more than 24% of the blame for the physical altercation? Do you believe she bears more responsibility than either the boy or the school? Quantify your position, please. I want to know exactly how much blame you are assigning to the victim.

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