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Fuck milk solids (discuss.tchncs.de)
submitted 10 months ago by to c/vegan@lemmy.world
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[–] 37 points 10 months ago (17 children)

I swear they just put milk powder in stuff for fun sometimes. There's no way it's actually that important to the flavor of a BBQ chip.

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  • [–] 20 points 10 months ago (15 children)

    Maybe it's cheaper than sugar in some cases? Milk is sweet and had fat in it, which can enhance other flavors. It still seems so self-defeating, though. They're limiting their pool of potential buyers. Lactose intolerance is just as common as veganism.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago* (11 children)

    It's hard to imagine how milk products could be cheaper when they require more energy inputs and more processing, along with limiting the consumer base as you said. I guess it's really subsidized so a lot of the actual cost is externalized?

    I think like they're just doing what they've always done. Inertia.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago* (8 children)

    It's cheaper because it's a by product of an incredibly popular main product. There is so much of it that isn't used it's hard to sell for much because it's abundant and otherwise they would have to pay to dispose of it. And it is a food grade by product that has chemical properties making it an engineering solution to food producers

    That shouldn't be a surprise I would have thought

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (7 children)

    But is it cheaper than just using sugar and vegetable oil? I'm skeptical, especially since a lot of products that aren't even marketed as being dairy free don't bother with using dairy products. I'm not surprised, I just think it's one of those "if it works, don't fix it" kind of things that get stuck in the process.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    Iirc yes it is much cheaper because otherwise it's a waste product

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (5 children)

    If there's a demand for a waste product they can still charge for it, simply because companies will pay. It's not like they give it away.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Yes.

    but if the demand is because it's cheaper to use that product instead of alternatives, then the price can't raise too much until those alternatives raise in price

    And if there is no other user for it then that's just where the price will stay

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (3 children)

    I feel like you're overlooking the fact that dairy is subsidized too, like I said before. It's not merely cheaper because it's a waste product of something that's "incredibly popular", it's propped up by the government. If the real price was paid the popularity of milk and its waste products would likely decrease.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    There's many factors that contribute to the price of dairy product. Dairy is used for a wide wide variety of things. I don't think that subsidies are a relevant factor in the case of the waste products. If dairy wasn't subsidized, dairy wouldn't stop being used and those waste products would still be created and we are back to where we already are. If those waste products are still going to be produced, there may be less of it but still far more than needed and so there is still excess

    I'm not overlooking subsidies, but I don't see that is relevant. Since the subsidies are not in anyway for the production of dairy by products.

    As an example where I am they are subsidized to create a system that will never run out of dairy as a consequence of WW2 era rationing my country decided we will never have a dairy shortage again. It was and still is(or just had never been reassessed) deemed too important to have milk and all the things they can do with it and how powerful it is as a source of nutrition in tones if scarcity because it ticks a lot of boxes.

    Also the alternatives are also subsidized so I don't see it being a useful point to consider.

    So if you are calculating the cost of this by product to costs it's cost effectiveness against the alternatives you also then have to calculate those subsidies for the alternative options as well. And if we eliminate subsidies from both sides of the comparisons then those other options sky rocket and only makes these by products relatively cheaper to use. Being that the alternatives subsidies are for the alternatives themselves. The key thing here is that it's a by product of another product(s) and will always be available in quantities that are unable to be fully utilized anyways

    They just won't stop making dairy products even without subsidies. And if they stopped subsidizing it there would be a significant reduction in the amount produced, but as I understand the industry that won't make a dent in the amount of these by-products needed given how little of it is actually used compared to how much is produced. I might be wrong on that but it is how I understand things to be and is what's informing my opinions here.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (1 child)

    Who said we should eliminate subsidies from both sides? Subsidizing good things is good. Subsidizing bad things is bad.

    We should subsidize the alternatives. I'm not some free market moron. I just recognize that the subsidies for milk make it cheaper to produce, and thus increase its production. Increased milk production means more byproducts with greater availability and cheaper costs. Whether it's a waste product or not is irrelevant, price is determined by supply and demand. Decrease supply, prices go up.

    Then, maybe, we could make a world where no one exploits animals for their milk. It's definitely a first step.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Sorry it should have been understood that I meant eliminate it from the cost comparisons between it and it's alternatives.

    I thought I did a good job of saying even if you eliminate the dairy subsidy it won't affect the cost of the by products used enough to stop them from being used. Because there is too much by product. Scale back all of the excess to just the amount that people will actually consume and not the excess created and still the remainder won't have enough uses to use it all.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    Fun fact, a lot of shelf-stable peanut butter is actually defatted peanut flour remade into a paste with a cheaper canola or soy oil and a bit of sugar to mask the taste, so they can sell the peanut oil and the peanut butter it comes from.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Neither one of which is all that common compared to the rest of the population.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago

    I mean, really depends on the region for lactose intolerance:

    Worldwide, about 80% of people experience some form of lactose intolerance as they age past infancy, but there are significant differences between populations and regions. As few as 5% of northern Europeans are lactose intolerant, while as many as 90% of adults in parts of Asia are lactose intolerant.

    An estimate of the percentage of adults that can digest lactose in the indigenous population of the Old World

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#Epidemiology

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    I can't imagine it's an issue for the lactose intolerant. I wouldn't know though. It's such a small amount usually, and probably cooked, so I'm sure it won't cause any serious trouble.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    I remember steve-o saying in a podcast that the only non vegan thing he eats are monster munch chips or something, no idea what they are. He said it has milk powder in it and he can't comprehend why. He (jokingly?) said that he wants to get in touch with them because there are vegan alternatives. I wonder if he ever did.

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