Screenshot of a tweet by Mike Primavera (@primawesome). It reads, "My neighbor told me coyotes keep eating his outdoor cats so I asked how many cats he has and he said he just goes to the shelter and gets a new cat afterwards so I said it sounds like he's just feeding shelter cats to coyotes and then his daughter started crying."
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[–] 78 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (85 children)

"Outsidoor cats" shouldn't be a thing, imo.

Edit: didn't realize I totally messed up the word, "outdoor".

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (26 children)

    It can only be in a setting where humans have completely modified the environment…then you create a scenario where cats become just another pest species.

    I'm not sure what you're saying here. But, like most suburbs do in fact host some songbirds- especially during migration. Parks, wooded areas, etc. Cats don't really care if it's a suburban park or a shitty nature preserve that apartments maintain because they bought the land but it's wetlands (and set it up as a sort of "we bait deer and racoons and shit so your kids can catch rabies and other exciting diseases pet them."

    There are very, very few places that humans haven't modified in some way. and I'm not sure they even exist at all.

    There's peregrine falcons that hunt doves in downtown minneapolis (and they're super fun to watch if you can catch them. Animals can and do adapt to humanity's bullshit. feral cats are more of that bullshit.

    Cats should absolutely not be let out. it's not safe for the cat (Coyotes, owls. diseases. cars. Just getting stuck. and enviromental exposure.) and it's not safe for other wildlife (songbirds, rodents. etc,)

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    House cats have literally been responsible for the extinction of several species. Their roaming territory can be a several mile radius.

    They are absolutely a major threat to local wildlife regardless of human changes to the area.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife

    In Australia, hunting by feral cats helped to drive at least 20 native mammals to extinction,[11] and continues to threaten at least 124 more.

    In a global 2023 assessment, cats were found to prey on 2,084 different species, of which 347 (or 16.5%) were of conservation concern

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat

    The home ranges of male feral cats, which are generally two or three times larger than those of female cats, are on average under 10 ha (25 acres), but can vary from almost 300 ha (740 acres) to under 1 ha (2.5 acres).

    I've personally witnessed one of my cats well over a mile from home back when they were allowed outside.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    I like how confidently incorrect you are.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    Man, you really enjoy being confidently incorrect, don't you.

    You're right about one thing, though, this isn't some zero sum issue. You can definitely acknowledge cats are an ecological threat without taking away from the fact that humans are also an ecological threat.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    Lots of claims from you in here about being personally fine with allowing invasives into your area, but is there any researched evidence for it?

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  • [+] 3 points 11 months ago (6 children)
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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    This “educate yourself” nonsense is rich…given you didn’t engage with anything I said.

    I’m an off grid subsistence farmer and an anti-materialist. It’s exactly because I “educated myself” that I’m out here. Cats are pretty fucking low on the list of harm the humans cause to the environment…they only exist as a “problem” in fake environments created where humans mass together.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    My argument is you’re spending way too much energy thinking about outdoor cats, which are irrelevant to the larger argument of harm to the environment.

    It’s a distraction from the problem that humans themselves pose to the environment…you’d get a lot more bang for your buck and the cat problem would take care of itself it if you were less materialistic, for example.

    If you think you’re doing a goddamn thing by keeping your cat indoors, while at the same time running on the hamster wheel on consumerism…I have news for you.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    Tell me you cannot even conceive of an "invasive species" without telling me you are incapable of understanding that basic concept.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    If the concept of an invasive species is an insufficient response in your eyes, then I maintain that my prior response is not insult, but observation.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    I wholeheartedly agree that humans are invasive, but one need only look at a place like New Zealand to see how one of homo sapiens' most environmentally-damaging qualities is that it brings other invasive species with it. Treating birds at bird feeders as if they're all invasive is deeply reductive and objectively wrong. Animals migrate in some cases hundreds of miles in a day.

    Cats are universally deeply invasive once feral, and humans letting those cats (and dogs) get out has been the primary threat to the wildlife of New Zealand. Not humanity itself. This is almost universally true on any island, from islands that have been completely taken over by rats, to the Spaniards' tendency to leave behind feral hogs that outcompete even the most deadly of predators within a couple generations. But in only one case does everyone treat this like it's some endearing quality: outdoor cats.

    Just because there's a much bigger problem doesn't mean that the small one doesn't exist. That's just whataboutism. ALL of these need to be dealt with, but you know which one is the easiest to tackle FIRST? (Hint: it's not the pigs)

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (43 children)

    Can places still keep them for pest control? What's wrong with an outdoor cat?

    EDIT: It's so weird getting downvoted for a genuine question. See y'all in the next thread about why isn't Lemmy more popular.

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  • [–] 50 points 11 months ago (34 children)

    They kill a lot of wildlife, which in many settings is not desirable.

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  • [–] 22 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Even if they don't kill, say, a bird, a cat's mouth and teeth are loaded with bacteria. It generally doesn't harm humans that much, but birds and small mammals stand a good chance of dying from infection if they're bitten or scratched up by a cat.

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  • [+] 25 points 11 months ago* (3 children)
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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago

    Someone pointing out logical fallacies is most definitely them saying something.

    Unfortunately, often the willfully ignorant and those who live lifes free of logic cannot understand these words and decide they are meaningless.

    They also tend to think people smart than them are dumber than them, but that's often a defense mechanism over a paper thin ego.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago* (12 children)

    Cats have no natural predators most likely wherever you are, so no. If you live in Turkey, or around there, fine. That's where they (rather, their ancestors) are native. They do have natural predators. If you live anywhere else then this excuse is bullshit just to make yourself feel better for being a shitty pet owner. It's bad for their health and for the environment. You aren't doing them or anything else any favors by not doing your job as a caretaker.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    large owls will happily predate on cats. They're like flying cats that are even more Murder Hobo-ish.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    You know cats are here because of people, right? They, along with our cities, are issues we crested.

    I'm not anti-cat. I'm anti-destruction-of-the-environment. Cats are our responsibility, and fault, as much as the destruction our cities and roads are.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    God, what a shitty opinion. You people always go with the "what about" argument to justify shitty behavior. "Littering isn't bad because burning coal for electricity is worse!" Such a lazy and bullshit argument. Something else bad happening does not justify other bad actions. This is shit you're supposed to be taught as a child, but I guess some of you never learned that lesson.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Where the hell do you live that dogs are getting killed by predators instantly? Do you mean like small dogs? I could see that.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago* (11 children)

    But yeah the outdoor cats are the issue.

    The issue is people thinking there is just an issue. When will you children learn that one bad thing does not justify another? All that you said is an issue, yes. I can also point out much worse issues, so we shouldn't worry about those, right? Of course that isn't correct! More than one thing can be bad at the same time, and we can also work on more than one thing at a time. Work on bringing back native plants and animals to suburbia and reduce how many evasive species we release into the environment. This isn't an exclusive or situation. We can work on all of it.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    Indoor cats live longer healthier lives on average.

    Anyway, you're a shitty person. No one would ever improve anything if everything else had to be fixed first. You can always come up with some excuse for something else that needs to be improved before you hold yourself accountable for your own actions. No, this is all a lame bullshit excuse because you don't want to do the right thing. It isn't about other people. It's about you being a lazy selfish asshole.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (5 children)

    No more than "you’re a shitty person because you’re okay with throwing trash on the ground outdoors." Actually, it's worse than that be cause it's also bad for the health of the cat and the environment.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I guess you also think it's cruel to not let children run in the road when they want to, right?

    If you're not providing the right stimulation for your pet, in a safe and healthy environment where they don't cause issues for others, then that's on you as a pet owner. Either don't keep a pet or do your fucking job. They don't get to make the decisions. You do.

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  • [–] 22 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I think I've read that they can really hurt the local wildlife as they're excellent hunters. Also they poop in sandboxes and you can get really sick from it.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    It's cruel to the cat. There is no shortage of outdoor hazards that can injure them or make them sick. It's also very bad for biodiversity. Domestic cats alone are responsible for the endangerment and extinction of hundreds of species. There are other, better, more targeted ways to deal with pests. Do not keep your pets outside.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago*

    Your question suffered in part because another person was in the comments arguing that cats aren't a problem. Sometimes, someone who is just asking questions appears alongside someone who is "Just Asking Questions" and being a total asshole about it.

    100%, this would have happened on Reddit, too.

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