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In the wealthiest country on Earth. (lemmy.world)
submitted 11 months ago by to c/latestagecapitalism@lemmy.world
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[–] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Just "Marxist" suffices. Judging by your hatred of socialists, that's probably a slur for you already.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and explain myself to you:

Labor, according to Marx's Labor Theory of Value, is the source of value in society and economy. Without labor, there simply is no value.

I envision a society that behaves according to the moral principle that can be summarized as "everyone contributes according to their capabilities, and everyone receives according to their needs".

Who are those who obtain compensation without work? Landlords, capitalist owners, financial institutions: rentiers and exploiters, in short. I don't want those in my society.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    can we please chill.

    tried to make the last comment half a joke. I'm a Marxist too, work with my local DSA and mutual aids (not as socialists as I would want, but the closest thing).

    I just disagree with the concept that work is a moral thing. people should work according to their habilites. but if it isn't necessary, there shouldn't be bullshit jobs just for people to be busy and "earn" a living.

    Even comparing with medieval serfs we work more than them and barely affording rent. despite productivity being orders of magnitude greater.

    fuck landlords, they definitely do not "earn" a living, they suck it from others who do like the parasites that they are.

    I think we're both getting too defensive.

    It's ok to disagree in the small details, if you want to continue, we can focus on that.

    for me, feel free to use he/him and any slur you prefer (i think I've earned a couple here)

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    Sure, let's chill, sorry for my part on that.

    Seeing as you're a Marxist and DSA member: mate, why the need for the left-punching "tankie bootlicker" stuff? Actually existing socialism has brought liberation to hundreds of millions of people, had there been no USSR what would have happened to Cuba or Vietnam?

    Now, about work. I agree there shouldn't be bullshit jobs. Labour, as the only source of value, is a precious commodity, and shouldn't be wasted on bullshit just because "working dignifies" or some right wing shit like that. That said, I also thing that there will always be labor to do, and since someone has to do it, it would be fair to more or less share it equally and according to our capabilities. We should also work fewer hours than we currently do.

    As a final nitpick: when people say that medieval serfs worked less than we do, I suspect only field labor is counted. Peasants mostly lived in self-sustaining communities where the clothes, the housing, the iron utensils, the ceramics, the basketry etc. were manufactured to a great degree by serfs themselves. Serfs may have had fewer "working days" than us as in fewer days spent in the field vs. the office, but I suspect that the rest of the time they were mostly also working doing basketry, woodworking, fixing clothes and cleaning them, building homes, or other labors that were for self consumption or for local trade.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Calling you a tankie bootlicker was intended as a jest. I hate how tone gets lost on the internet and I suck at making it clear (I also hate that it ends up with me being a Schrödinger asshole, where my statement is serious or a joke based on the outcome). There are tankies that are just red fascists and there are tankies that acknowledge the dangers of totalitarianism (and think how to avoid it) and the benefit of a state that cares for the public (I hope you are here).

    I only disagree that it is fair to spread the work as evenly as possible. like yhea, in principle it is fair, but in practice? Maybe I am a bit naïve in my utopia, but I believe that if our economy did not focus on BS commodities and luxuries, and instead focused on things that we need and make life better, most of the jobs would disappear. so much so that unemployment would be really high. but if living isn't tied to labour, that would not a bad thing. if only half the population has to work in jobs they enjoy doing that treat them well, then why not let the rest focus on the things that they love.

    From experience in academy, I know that 90% of scientists would do science just for the love of it. how many carpenters love their craft? how many truckers get home from a 16 hour shift and relax playing truck simulators? Let the rest do art, or just enjoy life.

    Those things are only relevant once/if we cover the lower rungs of Maslow's pyramid of needs, if there is no poverty, everyone is fed, has access to healthcare, education, and a dignified life, then who cares of someone wants to dedicate his life doing absolutely nothing?

    I will give you the point about serfs, but then we also have to account for the "chores" we do nowadays. if we include groceries, cooking, commuting, cleaning... then we practically have no free time as well, just like those serfs.

    although we can for sure agree that BS like the crank machine is objectively evil.

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