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[–] 40 points 11 months ago (48 children)

I've always believed that everyone should be able to have, for free, a permanent private living space of at least 80sqft, a reasonably comfortable bed, access to a toilet and shower and associated toiletries, clothing suitable for the weather, water and food (even if only some flavorless nutritional paste), and access to medical care both as-needed and on a regular basis. if you have no ambition in life beyond sitting in that little room staring at the wall and eating soylent, then so be it, for a society to provide any less is immoral

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  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    And think of the world we would create if this were the norm.

    The majority of people everywhere are ambitious, industrious and want to be useful. So you'd end up with a world full of people doing creative things ... and entire groups of people doing creative, inventive and useful things together.

    They'd figure out things like building space elevators, new industrial technologies, the cure for cancer (which would probably be redundant because everyone would automatically be able to afford to take care of their health), stabilize global warming, create alternate forms and sources of energy and begin the process of exploring space beyond our own system.

    Instead, we have a world where a hundred people own all the wealth, a billion people who think they're wealthy but aren't and 7 billion people struggling to get by .... and all of them fighting to become king or queen of the world.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    The best argument for UBI isn’t that it’s an inherently decent thing to do, it’s that it would legitimately make the world better for rich people too.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    UBI would never work with rich people in the world. The unfettered American form of a capitalist system is incompatible with life because the rich will never stop trying to take ALL the money, better world be damned. The system must be changed first.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 11 months ago

    While I agree with the mindset, I share the same view, some of your details are kinda...barbaric

    permanent private living space of at least 80sqft

    That's the size where prison cells float around. Iirc there was a study done that concluded that for an average person to remain mentally healthy they need at least 3-400 sq ft per person. Allowances must be made for families and partners

    even if only some flavorless nutritional paste

    Shit, that's been widely considered to be cruel and unusual punishment for prisoners. There's a balance between "not even good enough for prisoners" and "Lobsters every night"

    if you have no ambition in life beyond sitting in that little room staring at the wall and eating soylent

    Yeaaa there's plenty of other ways to entice people to work or to aspire. You don't need to make people eat flavorless paste, just luxury material goods alone would be enough. Like a decent smartphone, games, attractions (amusement parks, circuses etc), electronics etc. Plus most people want to work anyways just to have something to do

    If we enacted your plan as-is, the suicide rate would skyrocket lol

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Imagine my shock when I checked how much 80 square feet are.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    honestly seems wild to me that people are pushing back so hard on the idea of having at minimum a small bedroom, as opposed to a cot in a crowded bunk room, or one of those Japanese pod hotels. y'all never seen a college dorm room?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Don't get me wrong, I like the ideas you're proposing. The 80 square feet is just a little behind the rest in my opinion. And the flavorless paste, but others mentioned it already. It's not necessarily bad to have these as guaranteed minimum, but at the same time we can easily set the bar higher.

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  • [+] 6 points 11 months ago (18 children)
  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago

    Everyone deserves more, it's just that the whole things collapses if nobody does any of the things that make it happen. There needs to be a limit on those who are a "drain" on the system, and placing it at some sort of base-level dignity is a practical evil at least until such time where there is so much abundance it won't matter.

    From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. If you want more than what you need, then it has to come from somewhere.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago

    I'm sure there are better solutions if we assume we can dismantle and rebuild all of society any way we want, along with the attitudes of those who inhabit it, but I think it's worthwhile to consider how current systems could be improved

    I'm not talking about my personal vision of utopia, I'm talking about the bare minimum of a society that can begin to be considered just, even in a very hollow sense

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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago* (14 children)

    Correct, the good life is only for those that put in work.
    Shit ain't free.

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  • [+] 3 points 11 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Ariat Rebars.
    I wear them tho, don't eat them.
    They're for something called a "Job". Don't worry if you've never heard of it.
    It's where you trade your skills and work for goods and services, or vouchers for goods and services in the form of money. What's your favorite flavour of Valenki?

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  • [+] 2 points 11 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] -3 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    I didn't define worth at all. [Edit: not the worth of a person anyway..] Are you stroking out due to lack of producing any work?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (7 children)

    Except for people with generational wealth I guess huh?

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    I was being facetious. Do you really not see that I was pointing out that your comment was wrong?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    Oh wow, hard to argue against that.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    Seems hard for a few of you to argue anything at all. Not one coherent message. Just sarcasm or insult, no substance.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I’ve always believed that everyone should be able to have, for free, a permanent private living space of at least 80sqft, a reasonably comfortable bed, access to a toilet and shower and associated toiletries, clothing suitable for the weather, water and food (even if only some flavorless nutritional paste), and access to medical care both as-needed and on a regular basis. if you have no ambition in life beyond sitting in that little room staring at the wall and eating soylent, then so be it, for a society to provide any less is immoral

    Since around 2004, getting really deep in some leisurely research rabbit holes, I've maintained the assertion that everybody should be able to have, for free, spaceships of their own, that are clean ZPE powered, can do zero-inertia propulsion (~ that's all the instant acceleration, instant stopping, high speed sharp angle turns, stuff ~), can sustain human life indefinitely, can print another of itself instantly, and safe enough for a 2 year old to fly home.

    ... And that we could have had spaceships for everybody since the 1930s, and it's not so wild if one simply follows the tech arc from Michael Faraday through to Nikola Tesla's time (stopping by things like the Sonora Aero Club from 1850 along the way), and you can see the early working prototypes of the technology before the wright brothers' first flight.

    That, and, the abundant space on earth.

    ... Y'know we could increase the carrying capacity of earth to over 300 trillion, still with abundant spacious nature, with vast forest arcologyscapes. Much of the same tech that avails all space, helps us accomplish such constructive feats of better resource management on earth.

    No cull necessary.

    We have so much headroom, with proper resource management.

    We have so much headroom, without the parasitic crooks keeping us down, just so they have "more". Blithering idiots in the psychopathic circlejerk, yet to evolve to realise they'd have even more yet, in availing abundance and emancipation. They'd not be living the stressful fear laden life, striving to keep us down, and keep us from turning on them for keeping us down. Do they have spaceships yet? And the reassurance no one is trying to take theirs because everybody has their own too?

    Spaceships for everybody.

    (I say that a lot. I mean it like it encapsulates everything you proposed we each should have, and more, to the very best of human innovation.)

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  • [–] -5 points 11 months ago* (18 children)

    Are you ready to work and spend almost your whole salary to satisfy the needs of those who don't? Because work creates all those amenities. If they don't work, means you need to work more and results of your work be distributed.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    We have the means to satisfy everyone's need but not everyone's greed.

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  • [+] -6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Without working? Sure, tell me your plan.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    Yes I am willing to take less for myself if those in need receive more.

    Most people will work if they are able. Maybe we need more incentives for "shitty" jobs, but few people will want to live at such a base minimum level and do nothing. It is however, infinitely more humane than letting them die in the streets

    Do you not have a burning desire in your heart to labor? to derive some meaning out of your life? For nothing but your own enrichment or accomplishment?

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  • [+] -11 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    Most people won't work if they are able. This is quite literally the main incentive behind hard work and investments today.

    Like if instead of buying an apartment at mortgage I would be able to just receive one, I would pack my savings into crypto, get the space, and play games 24/7 till I die. Maybe I'd get bored and start doing some personal project, but most likely I won't.

    I'm in top 4% earners in my country btw, my taxes pay roughly for ~4 person welfares. If people like me have no incentive to continue working the system you build will collapse super fast.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago* (4 children)

    You could've just said you were an elistist shitbag from the beginning and saved everyone time.

    Edit: you clearly don't know what real life is like. Enjoy your privilege. Gfys

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  • [+] -10 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I'm working class. You are welfare class.

    I'm done here.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I'm in top 4% earners in my country

    I’m working class.

    Fucking lol.

    You're either a damn liar (nobody does that on the internet!), or you're owner class. If you're actually in the top 4%, it's all the people below you that are working class. You just suck up their labor, you parasite.

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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago

    I literally work and earn my money. I have less assets than good chunk of "poor" people have.

    So I don't understand how I suck up anyones labour. It's the opposite actually, those who didn't try to get education and a decent job are now getting welfare from the state from my progressive taxes.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 months ago

    Oh for lives of leisure.

    So that we may all become polymaths.

    Rather than lives of distraction from our toils done under duress, keeping us as specialists, cogs in the machine, ignorant to all else.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Do you think the "richest country in the world" should have people dying of exposure or malnourishment? That they should end up that way because of a bad cosmic dice roll?

    Check your privilege. Nobody is self-made in a vacuum.

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  • [–] -3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    USA defaultism. I'm not American. And from my perspective you have worse problem to than malnourishment.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    Nice dodge, Neo. Very pretty sidestep. Now, answer the fucking question. It's an easy yes or no.

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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago

    Easy: I don't give a fuck. It's your contrymen, not mine. If you really care you would open a volunteer org by now. But as of now, it's just a nice talking point. So why should I care if you don't?

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