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What valuable resources are out there for men to learn about themselves? (piefed.social)
submitted 11 months ago by to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world
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Basically title, I participated in an interesting exchange over the past day or so, and it made me wonder what some of the more useful resources are for men to learn about their bodies, hormones, brains, emotions, support networks, etc.

So I’m interested in websites, forums, video series, books, whatever. Links would be great if you’ve got them.

(Disclaimer: I am not male myself, which is why I’ve no idea, and am curious, but if this gains traction, I’d also just like to have this post be a resource. It’s good to periodically take stock of what’s out there.)

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[–] 20 points 11 months ago (9 children)

I'd start by being wary of anything that says it's 'for men.' The male parts of reproductive medicine/endocrinology/etc. can be studied but real understanding in that area is college/post-grad level courses of material. Almost anything approachable will be over-simplified unless you really dive in. However, on the social side, (brains, emotions, support networks, etc) it's usually a bad sign when the source says anything is exclusive to men. Most philosophy, psychology, sociology, emotional intelligence training, etc. is not served by framing it based on sex, and a lot of stuff that is framed that way tends to be propagandistic in pretending this or that understanding of sex-based social norms (a.k.a. gender) is the one true way. Studying psychoanalysis can be good, and i can recommend the Quarantine Collective on youtube as a nice place to learn about philosophy and a little bit of psychoanalysis, often presenting a secure, non-misogynistic masculinity. For emotional intelligence, it's more about practice than study but Heidi Priebe has made some good explanations, though watch out for the woo in Jungian thinking. And while it might sound strange to some, finding a good (for you) teacher for vipassana and metta meditations can be very helpful in understanding yourself, regardless.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago* (5 children)

    However, on the social side, (brains, emotions, support networks, etc) it’s usually a bad sign when the source says anything is exclusive to men

    This feels like a dangerous take.

    I just yesterday participated in a group for men, because we make up 3% of my industry and suffer a lot of discrimination.

    Likewise there are men’s sheds all around my country for men to get together, it’s hugely important for giving them a space to connect and story tell. They’ve led to decreases in suicide rates for older men.

    To generalise men’s support networks as bad because you’re probably only thinking of the manosphere hurts the rest of us. And it is sexist, however minor it may seem.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago* (4 children)

    The manosphere is the biggest, most visible thing 'for men' anyone searching is likely to find. I'm not saying every sex-discrimination based division is innately bad, just that it's best to be wary of individuals and organizations that try to claim that space. Many of them, and many of the most visible, are not really there for the benefit of the members. Heck, some of them start on one side of the line and then cross it at some point.

    If the goal is to create a world where men feel they are emotionally supported, it would be better to seek a system/situation that enables men to be open with and supported by both men and women. It may be easier to start with a group that shares some identity marker, such as sex, but it creates a... misleading experience to have the supportive kindness in someone's life come from men, or some other identity group, and risk the experience of women, or other outsiders to that identity group, being all/mostly/noticeably unsupportive strangers. Not everyone has the maturity to understand there might be a dynamic at play distorting their perceptions. Nothing is innate to a 'men only' space that encourages that maturity, especially given the world's dynamics with sex and gender as already in place. Thus, one must be very careful.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago* (1 child)

    I appreciate your voice of caution.

    To the second half of your comment, I think I'd propose we do not necessarily always need an asterisk on a male-specific support space. Yes, we should all support each other, but I think modern feminism and the good of the feminist movement has shown us that many, many decent men are quietly suffering just to get by, and not necessarily a part of the reactive toxic masculinity sphere. Perhaps finding the maturity for that balanced space where anyone can generally support any other still needs an interim step, slowly working towards a more centered place of generalised acceptance, and, dare I ask for it, calm.

    It is also possible we're talking past each other, but I felt it worth saying :)

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    I would suggest that the reason some men may need safe male spaces, is similar to the reason some women need safe female-only spaces. Not only does toxic masculinity exist, toxic femininity also exists, even if it is less pervasive. We live in a highly narcissistic culture where people who don't understand the experiences of those different from themselves feel entitled to shit on them.

    That said, we should be highly suspicious of those with an axe to grind making prescriptions about what it means to be male.

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  • [+] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)
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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    That has a lot to do with the perception of how those dynamics visibly play out. Men who group up and reinforce toxic ideation will tend to generate visible violence. Women who do so tend not to become visibly violent. (Visible here meaning at the broad societal/media level)

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  • [+] 0 points 11 months ago* (1 child)
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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    There is a difference of scale and type. The male incel community tends to produce outwardly focused violence, which sometimes hits at a larger scale, sometimes seemingly completely indiscriminately, or tying into other ideologies of hate. Femcel communities tend to produce smaller, more focused violence. They don't produce mass shootings/stabbings in anywhere near the same amounts.

    As for the pedophile double-standard, I suspect that has to do with a visibility bias rooted in most of the people espousing those views being violent adult men with traditional understandings of gender.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Most philosophy, psychology, sociology, emotional intelligence training, etc. is not served by framing it based on sex

    I imagine that the reason OP framed it this way is because they are (guessing?) a woman, and most things discussing these topics from a practical perspective are created by women, aimed at women, and have a female perspective (implicit or explicit).

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 11 months ago* (1 child)

    This is correct. I want to see what kind of resources are out there which men find helpful, and would want to share with other men. Doesn’t have to be specific to men. I know what I’ve found that’s helpful for myself, but I don’t have the perspective to know what someone with a mostly different life experience than my own would find helpful.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    I think part of the reason that this sort of content is less prevalent to men is simply that men find this kind of content less interesting intrinsically. "I want to deeply understand my emotions" is not a theme that many men find resonant. Instead, I think most of the content men consume relating to their mental and emotional lives exists as a subset of achieving some sort of external goal. They want to learn about their minds and emotions because they see these things limiting them in getting to the place they want to be - getting a hot body, getting a higher salary, knowing how to overhaul an engine, living a particular lifestyle, meeting a certain standard they have set for themselves, etc.

    I think this also leads to less naval-gazing. When men interact with their emotional lives, there isn't a ton of idle contemplation, which is what a lot of resources on these topics amounts to - men are interacting with their emotions just enough to take the next step forward in whatever their actual goal is. And so the men giving the best advice in this space are almost always not seen as experts on emotions, but are rather seen as experts in other things - their emotional / psychological teachings more often come through in being a good role model.

    That said, here are some people/sources that I've read/listened to which I think contributed to my emotional development as a man:

    General life/philosophy/emotional health:

    • Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - Robert Pirsig
    • The collected works of Carlos Castenada
    • The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck - Mark Manson
    • The Art of Manliness blog
    • The writing of David Wong/ Jason Pargin. In particular, this piece

    Health, fitness, and sport:

    • The books, articles, and podcast of Dan John
    • The books and youtube channel of Dave Macleod

    Sex and Dating:

    • Models - Mark Manson
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