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[–] 79 points 11 months ago (62 children)

🤞pleasejustpickbazzite pleasejustpickbazzite pleasejustpickbazzite🤞

I’m going to install CachyOS, an Arch-based distro

oh god dammit

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  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago* (14 children)

    CachyOS has been flawless on my S/O's desktop. From an easy install to plenty of documentation available, I couldn't have asked for much more. During install, there's an entire step dedicated to checking a box if you want to play games. (To enable non-free drivers).

    I don't think it was a poor choice.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    They didn't say it required documentation, they said it had plenty of documentation should you need it.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Damnit, you're right!

    But for real, I think you misunderstand the point of documentation. Even if something were truly, literally flawless, having documentation would still be a net gain. It isn't only to fix something when it goes wrong, but explains how things are working. If the only way for something to be literally flawless in your world view is for it to be so self explanatory that an idiot seeing it for the first time still understands it perfectly, nothing in computing can be flawless in that way.

    The pedantry on this point is so unhelpful as to be actively harmful to the rest of the discussion.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    There are instructions on your McDonalds coffee that say, "This coffee is hot."

    You might feel as though no documentation is necessary here, but clearly it was a critical miss for someone.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago

    Yeah, a lady got third degree vagina burns and a fused labia from McDonald's coffee. She needed surgery and skin grafts. She sued them and asked for her surgery bills paid, but the judge noticed that McDonald's had already got a lot of complaints about serving dangerously hot coffee, and he decided to award her one full day's worth of profits to teach them a lesson.

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  • [–] 88 points 11 months ago (23 children)

    I'M FED UP, GOING TO INSTALL LINUX!

    • picks a complicated distro where you really need to read the manual or do some heavy google searches to do gaming *

    I'M FED UP, THIS IS TOO HARD, I'M GOING BACK TO WINDOWS!

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  • [–] 35 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Honestly, Day 1'ers, I'd rather they run Debian, Mint, Ubuntu, or Fedora. There are strong communities that are noob friendly. Go ahead and install Steam, get some games working, get their feet wet. 99% of the time, they don't need more than basic stuff. Once they're over being afraid of not being in windows, then start distro hopping to whatever they want.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    I disagree. If you want to use Arch for the first time, install it the Arch way. It's going to be hard, and that's the point. Arch will need manual intervention at some point, and you'll be expected to fix it.

    If you use something like Manjaro or CachyOS, you'll look up commands online and maybe it'll work, but it might not. There's a decent chance you'll break something, and you'll get mad.

    Arch expects you to take responsibility for your system, and going through the official install process shows you can do that. Once you get through that once, go ahead and use an installer or fork. You know where to find documentation when something inevitably breaks, so you're good to go.

    If you're unwilling to do the Arch install process but still want a rolling release, consider OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. It's the trunk for several projects, some of them commercial, so you're getting a lot of professional eyeballs on it. There's a test suite any change needs to pass, and I've seen plenty of cases where they hold off on a change because a test fails. And when it does fail (and it probably will), you just snapper rollback and wait a few days. The community isn't as big as other distros, so I don't recommend it for a first distro, but they're also not nearly as impatient as Arch forums.

    Arch is a great distro, I used it for a few years without any major issues, but I did need to intervene several times. I've been on Tumbleweed about as long and I've only had to snapper rollback a few times, and that was the extent of the intervention.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I agree... I went with arch because I like rolling release but wanted to force myself to learn how things work. Anymore, arch has just as much chance of breaking as any other distro, fairly low honestly. It does however have the most detailed documentation and resources available.

    Now on CachyOs cause it's quicker to setup and the team behind it is so damn on top of getting issues fixed asap.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Yes, Arch is really stable and has been for about 10 years. In fact, I started using Arch just before they became really stable (the /usr merge), and stuck with it for a few years after. It's a fantastic distro! If openSUSE Tumbleweed stopped working for me, I'd probably go back to Arch. I ran it on multiple systems, and my main reason for switching is I wanted something with a stable release cycle for servers and rolling on desktop so I can use the same tools on both.

    It has fantastic documentation, true, but most likely a new user isn't going to go there, they'll go to a forum post from a year ago and change something important. The whole point of going through the Arch install process is to force you to get familiar with the documentation. It's really not that hard, and after the first install (which took a couple hours), the second took like 20 min. I learned far more in that initial install than I did in the 3-ish years I'd used other distros before trying Arch.

    CachyOS being easy to setup defeats the whole purpose since users won't get familiar with the wiki. By all means, go install CachyOS immediately after the Arch install, buy so yourself a favor and go through it. You'll understand everything from the boot process to managing system services so much better.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Learning is good.

    I know someone who after years of being told about gentoo, still refused to use the handbook to install it, had someone else install it for them, and gave up after a few months... recently revealed he thought it was a text only operating system. XD

    Learning is good.

    RTFM! :)

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Exactly.

    There's a difference between gatekeeping and being transparent about what's expected. I'm not suggesting people do it the hard way as some kind of hazing ritual, but because there's a lot of practical value to maintaining your system there. Arch is simple, and their definition of simple means the devs aren't going to do a ton for you outside of providing good documentation. If your system breaks, that's on you, and it's on you to fix it.

    If reading through the docs isn't your first instinct when something goes wrong, you'll probably have a better experience with something else. There are plenty of other distros that will let you offload a large amount of that responsibility, and that's the right choice for most people because most people don't want to mess with their system, they want to use it.

    Again, it's not gatekeeping. I'm happy to help anyone work through the install process. I won't do it for you, but I'll answer any questions you might have by showing you where in the docs it is.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    I 100% agree. If you want the Arch experience, you should have the full Arch experience IMO, and that includes the installation process. I don't mean this in a gatekeepy way, I just mean that's the target audience and that's what the distro is expecting.

    For a new user, I just cannot recommend Arch because, chances are, that's not what they actually want. Most new users want to customize stuff, and you can do that with pretty much every distro.

    For new users, I recommend Debian, Mint, or Fedora. They're release based, which is what you want when starting out so stuff doesn't change on you, and they have vibrant communities. After using it for a year or two, you'll figure out what you don't like about the distro and can pick something else.

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Cachy is one of the easiest distros to use

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Are you saying seasoned windows users can't cope with LFS (linux from scratch) first time around? /s

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    I see your /s but we all watched Linux Sebastian burn an easy distro to the ground with ample warnings while refusing to read any information about the distro. And he's on the long side of the Dunning-Kruger curve for windows.

    I think we need everything to work out of the box on all major hardware, no terminal commands, video accelerators working by default and steam to be a one-click install.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Its been incredible watching him while my own IT career has grown and watching my networking knowledge continuously remain noticably ahead of his entire company's. They finally have an actual network admin on staff so maybe they'll actually have a network that isn't completely flat...

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    I see your point but there are to many options and preferences. For one, the borders to what is "Major hardware" are very subjective. So are people's need. (I'm your opposite: I must have a terminal, I don't care one bit about video acceleration and and my interest steam is an absolute zero)

    So do that and you might end up with a windows-alike crappy platform. My expectations (and/or) hopes are that different distro's will keep focusing on different users groups. Some perfect for gaming, another for developers, a few for daily usage of email & browsing and so on

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    there are to many options and preferences

    What you need isn't what everyone needs. I suspect you'll have a very hard time finding massive numbers of windows users who only need a terminal.

    I sincerely hope that you don't need one distribution for games and another for developers, Having to reboot to play games is why we've had such bad penetration for years.

    Every distro needs to be able to handle all the video cards from the last decade. Lutris and Steam need to run really well everywhere or we'll take forever to get proper market penetration.

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  • [–] 24 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    Cachy's not that bad for beginners. I just did a test install on an old Nvidia PC, and it works for gaming OOTB.

    We've come a looooong way from Manjaro. I wouldn't wish Manjaro on my worst enemy, to be clear.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    i think i absolutely loved manjaro for the first week. then it just went downhill. i still think that manjaro had cool things. it’s been my favourite grub because of it being somewhat riced and always picking up whatever dual boot i had on different drives. still i would recommend manjaro only to those people who need to practice fixing broken distros. its really good at that.

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  • [–] 11 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Are you looking for fellow Bazzite users? (I'm one of them)

    Good to meet you brother/sister! We walk a rather lonesome road but glad I stand alongside you

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Sometimes I feel like I have to physically pull people away from things they aren't going to like. Everyone wants to learn how to drive a semi with a b-train, but they should be starting on the good old reliable Camry.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    As a veteran geek but absolute Linux noob, can you explain a bit the differences of Bazzite vs Mint? Just recently installed Mint on an old laptop, and it went quite smoothly... But the real test will be my plex server!

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    Mint is Ubuntu/Debian based and uses their Cinnamon desktop environment.

    Bazzite is Fedora based and uses KDE as the desktop environment.

    The biggest difference is that Bazzite is atomic or immutable distro. The core systems are read only so it's harder to break. It's also harder to tinker with. You're mostly limited to packages that are available in their package manager. You can install other stuff via layering if you really need to tinker.

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  • [+] 17 points 11 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 27 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    I installed CachyOS for a weekend and it’s now been several months. I love it.

    But I would never, ever recommend it to a new user. It still requires someone to be comfortable on the command line and it’s possible to break it if you don’t know what you’re doing.

    Bazzite just works. You install it and start logging into your accounts. It’s nearly impossible for a newcomer to break, and perfect for the vast majority of new Linux users.

    Recommending Cachy to new users hurts not only those users but the entire Linux ecosystem.

    I don’t recommend Mint, either, but only because I am a KDE cultist, I hate Cinnamon, and every time I’ve tried it on anything I’ve had frustrating hardware issues that I have never had on Fedora.

    I’m BlameTheAntifa and I have a distro-hopping addiction.

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  • [–] 19 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Bazzite is good for people who break their computer constantly because it's harder to break. Cachy is better for people who can be trusted with sudo

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago* (2 children)

    This. I mained Arch for 2 years and still can't be completely trusted with sudo. Moved to Nobara, would recommend as well. Its a bit more advanced, but you don't have to touch the command line if you don't want to and setup is right there step-by-step when you first boot.

    I did try Bazzite first. I just couldn't get used to living the Flatpak life. I know you can force install native packages, but at that point why wouldn't I just use Nobara, lol.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Just went from Bazzite to Steam OS on my TV PC. It's a little less flexible but I don't use desktop mode for much on the TV or want to install anything outside a few emulators and external game launchers. I've had too many updating issues with Bazzite over the years. The recent deal breaker was sunshine broke preventing it from updating.

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