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VoTe BluE (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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BlueMAGA

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[–] 11 points 1 year ago (6 children)

No one actually believes he ended the war

There is no war, there is an ongoing genocide of Palestinians by the settler colony of Israel.

And yes, the genocide very much didn't end unfortunately, and it won't end until Isntreal is driven out of the region. But it has been ameliorated. By all accounts, dem supporters constantly were ranting about how "not voting for Kamala worsens the genocide", and this is, factually, not what we're seeing.

Trump has purposefully made the genocide in Ukraine far worse

There isn't genocide in Ukraine, there is an inter-imperialist war going on in Ukraine. Using the label "genocide" to every conflict is very harmful to people like Palestinians who are actively being starved en-masse and kept out of reach of basic medicine, healthcare and even fucking drinking water.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    There isn’t genocide in Ukraine

    When Russia started relocating Ukrainian children into Russian families, that made it a coordinated effort to eliminate a people, which makes it a genocide.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    You mean when they fulfilled their obligations under international law to move children away from active war zones?

    Fucking monsters, they didn't even put a wall of them in front of their weapons like true humanitarians in Ukraine.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    After 2 years of insisting, Ukraine provided list of 339 names of missing children of which 161 were found living with parents in Germany. The entire "kidnapped children" take is pure atrocity propaganda.

    On the other side, in 2014-2022 Ukraine killed 15000 people in Donbas and forced millions more to migrate. THIS is considtent with UN definition of genocide.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Most of the claims of relocation of Ukrainian children to Russian families come from the government of Ukraine, not from independent investigative journalism. The Ukrainian government has obvious reasons to do this atrocity propaganda. The Russian government itself justified the start of the war on similar grounds, arguing that Russian ethnics in eastern Ukraine were being genocided by Ukraine through forced Ukrainization and the banning of Russian language. I don't take the Russian government seriously when it makes such claims because I haven't seen much independent journalism confirming it, I apply the same reasoning to the claim of Ukrainian children being kidnapped en-masse and forcibly Russified.

    As far as I know, there are only a handful of independently confirmed cases of Ukrainian children being sent to adoptive families in Russia, and most children evacuated by the Russian military have been returned to their families in Ukraine. There aren't many cases of either because, as you may expect, in an attrition war in which the movements of the frontline are slow, there are very few children near the frontlines.

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  • [+] -2 points 1 year ago (1 child)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Some of the countries that have officially labeled Russia's brutal invasion as a genocide include [list of geopolitical enemies of Russia]

    France can't even fucking recognize the state of Palestine until like a week ago, and now they're authorities in genocide? Fuck them.

    As for your points list:

    #1 goes mostly from claims by the Ukrainian government. It is true that Russia has extracted children from the warzone and it is true that in some cases these children have been sent to adoptive families in Russia, which I heavily condemn, but it's not a generalized thing and most confirmed extracted children have been returned eventually. The official numbers by the Ukrainian government aren't confirmed by any investigative journalism and the invaded Ukrainian state has obvious motivations to claim abduction of Ukrainian children and violations of human rights. The Russian government makes similar claims of forced de-Russification of ethnic Russians in Donbas to justify its invasion of Ukraine, which I hope you don't take seriously because it's obviously state propaganda.

    #2 A statement doesn't make a genocide.

    #3 Civilian deaths in the Ukrainian war, by any metric you want to use, are contained compared to any imperialist war carried out by the west. Civilian death ratio in the unlawful and horrifying invasion of Iraq was comparably much higher and it wasn't a genocide in my opinion (probably not in yours either). However horrifying the invasion of Ukraine is, it responds to patterns of war between nations, not of genocide attempts against a population.

    #4 Isolated instances of war crimes don't imply a generalized intent to massacre civilians of a given ethnicity. War crimes are horrible and the perpetrators should be brought to justice, but again, the scale you bring of "hundreds" doesn't respond to genocidal goals. Massacres of civilians take place in many wars (see Vietnam, Libya...) and are war crimes, but not every war crime is genocide.

    Please, do not dillute the meaning of the word "genocide". It's meant to carry an extremely heavy connotation of attempt of total extermination of an ethnicity and culture, and throwing it around lightly is an injury to people suffering from it.

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