I've been trying Lemmy for a little while and wasn't sure how to feel about it.

Today, I wanted to start blocking the most high-censorship instances until I could find a fully zero-censorship instance and simply block all the ones with censorship. Filter bots, not people.

When I looked into it further, I found out there are no zero-censorship instances, because Lemmy relies on a broken "federation" system where each instance is supposed to be able to fetch posts from other instances, but it's never been finished to reach a fully working state. Lemmy's official docs say you can't even do federation over Tor at all. This means it uses DNS, so it won't actually allow Lemmy instances to fetch posts from each other freely, it just gets blocked instantly and easily, every time the authorities feel like blocking anything.

So you can only ever have the "average joe lemmy" and "average joe reddit" with everything approved by the authorities, and then "tor copies of lemmy" and "tor copies of reddit" where you have free speech but you can only reach other nerds.

People seem to think Lemmy is different because this weird censorship fetish is extremely popular and most of you are happy to see bans happen to certain people, not just bots, so a small Lemmy that censors certain people feels fundamentally different from a big reddit that censors more people. But it's the exact same thing, it's reddit.

When reddit was smaller, you could say basically anything you wanted there, they just wouldn't let it reach the main audience. Then it got too big, and any tiny part of the audience you could reach would be too big, so they won't let you talk at all.

Lemmy is now the small part of reddit where you can say whatever you want, separated from the main audience, until too much growth happens and you have to move again.

It's not actually a solution to reddit. It's not designed to be different, it's designed to match the past today and then match reddit's present tomorrow, while being part of a system that's about the same in past, present, and future.

Last year, this year, and next year, you're posting somewhere it won't be seen by many people, and the system that charges people for ambulance rides is getting another year of ambulance ride revenue, facing no organized resistance. There's no difference here.

Lemmy urgently needs federation between onion service instances and DNS addresses in order to actually do what most users seem to wish it would do: allow discussion outside what the corporate authorities allow, while outgrowing reddit & helping undo the damage social media has done to human communication.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    You're free to read and respond to any comments you want, you're the only one who can waste your time.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    How did the person "bait" you? How is it nonsense? How does the responsibility, how you spend your time, shift to someone else? How are you a victim? How are you arguing in good faith?

    So much to unpack.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Hahahahahahahahaha what the fuck. I did not bother reading past your first section. Why should I? Waste someone else's time.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (26 children)

    I absolutely think nazis should be censored from political discourse in communities I am involved in.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (24 children)

    So you seem to think that should never happen?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (21 children)

    I don't think you would get banned for saying you don't believe nazis should be banned.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    That’s not what you asked, and it’s much easier to answer, but it can only be answered with a question: banned from what?

    Banned from the community or instance they're posting in. If a nazi joins lemmy.world or sh.itjust.works and starts being a nazi, they'll get banned from the instance. Do you object to that?

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 1 year ago* (18 children)

    lemmy.world: yes, fuck em, I will basically object to anything they do if I even slightly disagree at all

    sh.itjust.works: kinda, but not really. I wouldn't ask sh.itjust.works to change how they operate when they've been chill with me so far. I would hope they change someday, but not demand it or have a problem with them staying as they were.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    Right, well it'll go the same in almost every instance. Sh.itjust.works has rules:

    Be respectful. Everyone should feel welcome here. No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. No Ads / Spamming. No pornography.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    No, that's not why these rules exist. Sh.itjust.works doesn't have to block pornography. It doesn't have to have rules against racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia or xenophobia.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (14 children)

    "These rules" as in the rules all Lemmy instances have, which matches what I said.

    Not "these rules" as in one specific instance's rules, which would obviously not match what I said.

    Why are you making me explain this? Seems like bad faith discussion from you

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    “These rules” as in the rules all Lemmy instances have, which matches what I said.

    No, some lemmy instances have different rules. Some allow pornographic content. Some do not. There's a specific instance that is explicitly about porn: lemmynsfw.com. Sh.itjust.works could change the rules tomorrow and nothing will happen to them.

    “These rules” as in the rules all Lemmy instances have, which matches what I said.

    What "rules" are you referring to that all Lemmy instances have?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (12 children)

    No, some lemmy instances have different rules.

    I didn't say they all have identical rules, so the "no" doesn't make sense here, and neither does bringing this up again overall.

    Some allow pornographic content. Some do not. There’s a specific instance that is explicitly about porn: lemmynsfw.com. Sh.itjust.works could change the rules tomorrow and nothing will happen to them.

    Didn't ask. Why are you telling me all this?

    What “rules” are you referring to that all Lemmy instances have?

    You were literally just listing some of them, now you're pretending you need me to?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

    You were literally just listing some of them, now you’re pretending you need me to?

    Those are not rules that /all/ lemmy instances necessarily have. Or have to have. Those were just sh.itjust.works rules.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (9 children)

    You also mentioned lemmynsfw.com remember?

    Yeah, they have different rules. They're not sh.itjust.works.

    The point is the moderators chose those rules, they weren't pressured into them.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    The point is the moderators chose those rules, they weren’t pressured into them.

    No, I asked more than once why you're pretending you can't remember any instance's rules right after you mentioned several from at least 2 instances.

    My point was it seems like you're trying to confuse anyone reading this, which is weird, because you've already gone on an hours-long gish gallop and you can't necessarily assume anyone else will even read this far.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    No, I asked more than once why you’re pretending you can’t remember any instance’s rules right after you mentioned several from at least 2 instances.

    What? When did I say I can't remember any instances rules? I quoted sh.itjust.works rules and then referenced lemmynsfw as another example as they have different rules, and allow pornography.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    What?

    It's text, just read it again.

    When did I say I can’t remember any instances rules?

    Why are you asking like I would know, and why are you putting it right after a quote of yet another question you're ignoring?

    I quoted sh.itjust.works rules and then referenced lemmynsfw as another example as they have different rules, and allow pornography.

    I didn't ask you to repeat yourself like this, why waste the time? Just because you're an abusive person, right?

    Still really weird how you asked me for examples you had just given yourself. Care to try explaining that? Seems like you were just trying to be confusing, which is really weird when it's basically just us in this subthread.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    You claimed I had forgotten the rules of any instance when no such event happened.

    I didn’t ask you to repeat yourself like this, why waste the time? Just because you’re an abusive person, right?

    You are a sensitive little soul, aren't you? I'm not keeping you here. You don't have to reply.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    You claimed I had forgotten the rules of any instance when no such event happened.

    I don't think I claimed that. You were clearly pretending to forget, not actually forgetting. I made it clear that seemed pretty obvious from how you had just mentioned examples yourself, right before asking for them.

    You are a sensitive little soul, aren’t you?

    Me, the soul? I don't know. I'm pretty sure my sensitivity is powered by the central nervous system. There's not a clear scientific answer on what souls even are, but it feels like I might have a honey badger type of one, in the body of a human pothead.

    I’m not keeping you here.

    I didn't ask if you were.

    You don’t have to reply.

    I didn't ask if I did, and while it's debatable, I don't really have enough of an opinion to debate on it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    I don’t think I claimed that. You were clearly pretending to forget, not actually forgetting. I made it clear that seemed pretty obvious from how you had just mentioned examples yourself, right before asking for them.

    I did neither.

    My point is that it's laughable to claim abuse when you keep coming back for more, so to speak.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I did neither.

    Incorrect. You did what I said you did.

    My point is that it’s laughable to claim abuse when you keep coming back for more, so to speak.

    That's gibberish, not a point.

    Does lying make you feel better about being an abusive psycho?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (21 children)

    Personally I use other platforms for uncensored discussions.

    Unfortunately they're filled with insufferable twats like yourself, but that's the price we pay for free speech.

    It's obvious for everybody except for you, that Lemmy isn't intended as a free speech platform, but a means to form your own community based on shared interests and values. That inherently comes with some amount of censorship at the discretion of instance operators. I'm a free speech advocate, but I value and respect individuals' right to maintain their property (Lemmy instance) as they see fit.

    If you want free speech, hop on Simplex where you can yell racial slurs until you've satisfied yourself.

    Or spin up your own lemmy instance. I'd be happy to join and engage in some debates.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    This is self-contradictory. Which is it?

    It's not self-contradictory. Any user created community will have rules designed to keep on-topic. Whether or not its a music community, video game community, national community, pottery community. "Free speech zones" so to speak are contradictory to those goals.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    Reddit has the authority to hijack a subreddit and change the mods and the rules, or just ban it. Reddit staff take that authority, and reddit users grant it.

    Yes. So do lemmy instances.This is because community moderators don't actually own any part of the instance they operate on. How is it you imagine Reddit users can somehow not grant it?

    But ignoring that, any user-made community has specific topics and themes in mind for what it wants to focus on. This necessarily requires focusing on those things to the explicit censorship of other topics.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (16 children)

    How is it you imagine Reddit users can somehow not grant it?

    By coding a decentralized P2P reddit and moving there, I guess.

    Or just a tor version of Lemmy could be good.

    But ignoring that, any user-made community has specific topics and themes in mind for what it wants to focus on. This necessarily requires focusing on those things to the explicit censorship of other topics.

    Right, and you can't pick those other topics for your community, because federation is broken.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    By coding a decentralized P2P reddit and moving there, I guess.

    The Fediverse existed for disgruntled reddit users.

    Right, and you can’t pick those other topics for your community, because federation is broken.

    Huh? Community owners (I'm talking about the equivalent of subreddits here can pick the topic and focus of their communities). And in terms of instances, an instance owner can absolutely choose the theme of their instance. There are many different instances with different vibes, aesthetics and political persuasions across the fediverse.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (13 children)

    Incorrect. Federation broken, which prevents this. How many times do I have to say this?

    How does federation allegedly being broken mean that lemmy.blahaj can't be an LGBTQ focused instance? How does federation allegedly being broken mean that slrpnk.net can't be a solarpunk themed instance? Or that adult.swim isn't themed around animation?

    Incorrect. All of them are in the same pro-censorship bubble so far, because Lemmy so far is designed with broken federation to promote that outcome. How many times are you going to make me explain the same shit again?

    Are you of the opinion that a "pro-censorship bubble" is somehow a single theme on its own and that there's no difference between hexbear.net and maga.place?

    What would distinguish an instance from each other in your mind? Also, the federation system has no relevance here to the culture of the Fediverse. Even if the Fediverse was on TOR - it would not stop instances having federation standards.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    How does federation allegedly being broken mean that lemmy.blahaj can’t be an LGBTQ focused instance?

    I don't know. I would bet that's not even true. Why do you ask?

    How does federation allegedly being broken mean that slrpnk.net can’t be a solarpunk themed instance?

    Again, I don't know. Again, I would bet that's not even true. Yet again, why do you ask?

    Are you of the opinion that a “pro-censorship bubble” is somehow a single theme on its own and that there’s no difference between hexbear.net and maga.place?

    Nope. I have no idea what hexbear.net or maga.place are, and overall don't even understand what you're asking.

    What would distinguish an instance from each other in your mind?

    Are you asking me for dictionary help again? Why can't you just check "distinguish" in a dictionary? I never said or implied I use it differently from the dictionary "in my mind"

    Also, the federation system has no relevance here to the culture of the Fediverse. Even if the Fediverse was on TOR - it would not stop instances having federation standards.

    Didn't ask, why waste time typing that stuff?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (11 children)

    I don’t know. I would bet that’s not even true. Why do you ask?

    Bet what isn't true? That lemmy.blahaj isn't pro-LGBT?

    Again, I don’t know. Again, I would bet that’s not even true. Yet again, why do you ask?

    Bet what isn't true? That slrpnk.net isn't solarpunk-themed?

    Nope. I have no idea what hexbear.net or maga.place are, and overall don’t even understand what you’re asking.

    Hexbear is an overt Marxist instance. Maga.place is a pro-trump instance. Do you think they have the same culture? The same themes? It's also of note that you've not heard of hexbear, as to me that makes you quite uninformed about the entire fediverse.

    Are you asking me for dictionary help again? Why can’t you just check “distinguish” in a dictionary? I never said or implied I use it differently from the dictionary “in my mind”

    I didn't ask you for the definition of "distinguish". I asked you what sets instances apart. What makes lemmy.world different from sh.itjust.works, according to you?

    Didn’t ask, why waste time typing that stuff?

    The point is your grievances here with federation wouldn't change.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Bet what isn’t true? That lemmy.blahaj isn’t pro-LGBT?

    Whatever the premise was of the question I was replying to. I'm pretty sure lemmy.blahaj is pro-LGBT so if you were asking why they're not, then maybe yes, "that lemmy.blahaj isn't pro-LGBT" except I'm pretty sure that wasn't what you asked.

    Bet what isn’t true? That slrpnk.net isn’t solarpunk-themed?

    Whatever the premise was of the question I was replying to, but I have no idea what slrpnk.net is, so it couldn't have been that.

    Hexbear is an overt Marxist instance.

    Didn't ask.

    Maga.place is a pro-trump instance.

    Did they pay you for advertising? I didn't ask what they are.

    Do you think they have the same culture? The same themes?

    You tell me, you're the one spamming about them, I never heard of them before this

    It’s also of note that you’ve not heard of hexbear, as to me that makes you quite uninformed about the entire fediverse.

    I didn't ask, why waste time typing this?

    I didn’t ask you for the definition of “distinguish”.

    Good, because it almost seemed like you did.

    I asked you what sets instances apart.

    I assume you mean actual existing instances, so:

    • Cold signups
    • Level of "rules"
    • User base size
    • What other instances are federated/blocked

    What makes lemmy.world different from sh.itjust.works, according to you?

    I feel high certainty lemmy.world is run directly by glowies and some certainty sh.itjust.works isn't (directly - like, the admins themselves)

    The point is your grievances here with federation wouldn’t change.

    Your inability to imagine the future seems like it's more your problem than mine. I think you shouldn't be bothering me with it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (9 children)

    Whatever the premise was of the question I was replying to. I’m pretty sure lemmy.blahaj is pro-LGBT so if you were asking why they’re not, then maybe yes, “that lemmy.blahaj isn’t pro-LGBT” except I’m pretty sure that wasn’t what you asked.

    I said: "And in terms of instances, an instance owner can absolutely choose the theme of their instance."

    You replied: "Incorrect. Federation broken, which prevents this. How many times do I have to say this?"

    I asked: "How does federation allegedly being broken mean that lemmy.blahaj can’t be an LGBTQ focused instance? How does federation allegedly being broken mean that slrpnk.net can’t be a solarpunk themed instance? Or that adult.swim isn’t themed around animation?"

    You tell me, you’re the one spamming about them, I never heard of them before this

    The point is that different instances have different local cultures, rules, themes etc. That's my point. Federation not working properly, as you claim, doesn't change that.

    I assume you mean actual existing instances, so:

    Yes, I did.

    Okay then so there are different instances, active instances with different cultures, rulesets, themes.

    I feel high certainty lemmy.world is run directly by glowies and some certainty sh.itjust.works isn’t (directly - like, the admins themselves)

    Yeah, about that, got any evidence of lemmy.world being run by glowies?

    Your inability to imagine the future seems like it’s more your problem than mine. I think you shouldn’t be bothering me with it.

    Your future imagined here would require all current active and used instances to become completely anti-censorship in the way you want. Which they won't.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago* (8 children)

    I said: “And in terms of instances, an instance owner can absolutely choose the theme of their instance.”

    You replied: “Incorrect. Federation broken, which prevents this. How many times do I have to say this?”

    I asked: “How does federation allegedly being broken mean that lemmy.blahaj can’t be an LGBTQ focused instance? How does federation allegedly being broken mean that slrpnk.net can’t be a solarpunk themed instance? Or that adult.swim isn’t themed around animation?”

    I don't remember the adult.swim part at the time but why are you recapping the discussion instead of continuing it?

    The point is that different instances have different local cultures, rules, themes etc. That’s my point.

    I don't see how it's a point, and it's weird how you keep copying and pasting random quotes from me and then changing the subject without answering, while I copy and paste quotes from you and then type my responses to them.

    Yeah, about that, got any evidence of lemmy.world being run by glowies?

    You keep asking this, like you can't figure out the answer for yourself. It's kind of amusing.

    Your future imagined here would require all current active and used instances to become completely anti-censorship in the way you want.

    No, my imagination is separate from yours. You imagining something and typing it for me to read doesn't make it my imagined future.

    Which they won’t.

    Didn't ask, don't care.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    I don’t remember the adult.swim part at the time but why are you recapping the discussion instead of continuing it?

    I added it in shortly afterwards. And I posted it because you seemed lost, and needed a recap as to what I was referring to. As usual. You did deny that instances could have their own themes.

    I don’t see how it’s a point, and it’s weird how you keep copying and pasting random quotes from me and then changing the subject without answering, while I copy and paste quotes from you and then answer them.

    You barely answer me ever. You get lost all of the time.

    You keep asking this, like you can’t figure out the answer for yourself. It’s kind of amusing.

    So no evidence. Of course. "Me when I make things up".

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago* (6 children)

    I added it in shortly afterwards.

    The question was "why are you recapping the discussion instead of continuing it?"

    And I posted it because you seemed lost, and needed a recap as to what I was referring to.

    Incorrect. You're just gaslighting and wasting time.

    As usual.

    Again, just gaslighting.

    You did deny that instances could have their own themes.

    I doubt it.

    You barely answer me ever.

    Incorrect. I have been trying to clear my notification inbox of your replies for hours, and no matter what, you always have more replies before I can finish replying to the last ones. It's like you're typing extremely fast or I'm typing extremely slow or something. I'm definitely answering every single thing, though.

    You get lost all of the time.

    Incorrect again. Repeating it doesn't stop it from being gaslighting. In fact, it's a pretty common trait of gaslighting attempts.

    So no evidence.

    Incorrect, unless you're just observing that sometimes when you request evidence in bad faith, I might not have it on hand, or even necessarily feel like wasting time/energy providing it.

    Of course. “Me when I make things up”.

    Not sure what you were trying to type here.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    You did deny that instances could have their own themes.

    I doubt it.

    Yes you did.

    "And in terms of instances, an instance owner can absolutely choose the theme of their instance."

    "Incorrect. Federation broken, which prevents this. How many times do I have to say this?"

    Incorrect. I have been trying to clear my notification inbox of your replies for hours, and no matter what, you always have more replies before I can finish replying to the last ones. It’s like you’re typing extremely fast or I’m typing extremely slow or something. I’m definitely answering every single thing, though.

    Simply replying to me doesn't mean you actually substantially answer my points.

    Incorrect, unless you’re just observing that sometimes when you request evidence in bad faith, I might not have it on hand, or even necessarily feel like wasting time/energy providing it.

    So why would you expect me to just concur with your claims when you refuse to back them up?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Yes you did.

    This is a link, not a screenshot. Why waste time posting a link instead of a screenshot when I haven't really been clicking your links?

    “And in terms of instances, an instance owner can absolutely choose the theme of their instance.”

    “Incorrect. Federation broken, which prevents this. How many times do I have to say this?”

    These are sentences in quotation marks. Not reading them. Is there a reason they're here?

    Simply replying to me doesn’t mean you actually substantially answer my points.

    I didn't ask if it did. Why waste time typing that?

    So why would you expect me to just concur with your claims when you refuse to back them up?

    For a second time I tell you, I'm not really into riddles.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    These are sentences in quotation marks. Not reading them. Is there a reason they’re here?

    Sorry, so you're too lazy to click a link. You need an image every time?

    https://i.imgur.com/KXvX9Vv.png

    Here is where you denied that instances can have their own themes.

    The second sentence is your sentence. It's in the link. I actually provide the evidence for things you claim you didn't say.

    For a second time I tell you, I’m not really into riddles.

    If you refuse to back your claims up, why would you expect others to agree with them?

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Uh Huh

    Here is where you denied that instances can have their own themes.

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    There’s only the themes accepted by the authorities, due to broken federation.

    What themes are "rejected" by the "authorities" that they cannot choose for their instance?

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