▲ 456 ▼ Fish Suffer Up to 22 Minutes of Intense Pain When Taken Out of Water (www.sciencealert.com) submitted 1 year ago by floofloof@lemmy.ca to c/science@lemmy.world 138 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 1 year ago (33 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 33 child comments replies: [–] nednobbins@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago Yes. It's crazy. That's why the vast majority of us don't do it. It's one thing to be a vegetarian for health or environmental reasons. When you try to convince people that meat==murder, you come across as a wackadoodle. permalink fedilink source parent [–] trouble@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago (31 children) But I’m hungry permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 31 child comments replies: [+] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone -20 points 1 year ago (30 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 30 child comments replies: [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 22 points 1 year ago (5 children) All animals, us included, are food for other animals, and plants. That's what is called an "ecosystem". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] businessfish@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) buying meat from the grocery store is not an ecosystem permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ushmel@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) city says i can't shoot the squirrels anymore tho permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] PokerChips@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago There are not enough squirrels. They would be extinct quick. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago I live in a no hunt region. So, unless I travel 30 minutes to hunt for 12 hrs, grocery store is the next best thing. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Vandals_handle@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago That's a food web. An ecosystem incorporates the environment organisms live in and how the organisms interact within that environment. The soil, climate and weather are all part of an ecosystem. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mrslt@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (6 children) Human beings are omnivores and nature doesn't moralize. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 year ago “I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs, a very endearing sight, I'm sure you'll agree. And even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged onto a half submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters, who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature's wonders, gentlemen. Mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that is when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.” -Terry Pratchett, Unseen Academicals permalink fedilink source parent [+] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org -11 points 1 year ago (4 children) Good old natural factory meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 6 points 1 year ago (2 children) This is why I primarily only eat what I shoot, or what I catch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago I only eat meat that consents. Anybody want to come over for dinner? Coincidentally, you'll have to sign a waiver. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago But on a serious note, how good is venison? Fucking delicious. You ever make chili with it? Goddamn backstrap chili. Like eating heaven. permalink fedilink source parent [–] lime@feddit.nu 3 points 1 year ago this depends on where you live, surely. i have open field farms all around me that cooperatively own a slaughterhouse. they sell meat in stores under one brand but you can go to any of the farms and get it directly. permalink fedilink source parent [–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 year ago (3 children) All food is cruel. You can, at most, minimize the cruelty. But you should know that millions of insects are killed in agriculture. Insects are indeed animals. You can, if you want, minimize the amount of animals your presence in this world brings to an early death. But you cannot reduce it to zero no even near zero. Probably hundreds of small animals (most insects but surely many other small animals) die each day because things you do. The line on how much do you want to minimize might be on one place for you, and that's ok. But you have to respect other people lines as well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Taleya@aussie.zone 0 points 1 year ago (2 children) This...plants feel pain. Mushrooms may actually be sentient. Everyone draws their own lines, it doesn't make them better or worse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] o1011o@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) There is overwhelming scientific evidence that animals feel pain and are sentient like us, and despite the pop science articles to the contrary there is no scientific evidence that plants feel pain or have sentience at all. Plants respond to stimulus in very complicated ways, that's what we have evidence for. Don't pretend the two are equivalent. Stop getting your ideas from sensationalist pop science garbage and read the actual studies. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Taleya@aussie.zone 2 points 1 year ago So your line is at "feels pain on a level identifiable to something in the animal kingdom" permalink fedilink source parent [–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (4 children) If that were true, we wouldn't be able to digest them. Ever tried eating a tree? Or a boulder? Those aren't food for humans. I'm not gonna argue against moral motivations for veganism, but I will argue against factually incorrect ones. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Lumisal@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqLsus9_YsQ permalink fedilink source parent [+] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SalamenceFury@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* If eaten in large amounts. Also, herbivore animals get cancer too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Life causes cancer, plaque build-up causes heart disease. Nothing was meant to do or eat or kill anything, that's just how life evolved. Again, I'm not arguing over moral stances, I think it's very admirable. But I mean, even just as mammals we've been consuming other animals for more than 200,000,000 years! The reptiles those first mammals evolved from probably ate animals, as the fish those reptiles evolved from probably did as well. Cooked meat is very likely the evolutionary edge that lead to what what we can sentience, it obviously "works" on a biological level. To argue otherwise is delusion. permalink fedilink source parent [–] trouble@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago (4 children) I grew up on a farm and enjoy eating meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AlreadyDefederated@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Have you tried some good alternatives to meat? Like, try seitan* crumbles in a taco. With all the spices and other toppings it's really hard to tell the difference. Also, I find it almost impossible to tell an Impossible Whopper with Cheese from a regular Whopper with Cheese, after all the glop they put on it. I know those are both bottom-of-the-barrel meat choices, but maybe branch out and try a thing or two. If you don't like it - no biggie. I've tried casually dipping my toes into the vegetarian pool with just occasional meat substitutions. Occasionally I find something that's "No way" but more often than not, I find something that is also really tasty. It's not meat, but it's also tasty in a different way, so I don't miss meat as much. I've found vegetarian dishes I actually like. My biggest problem however is getting enough protein in my diet when I start eating mostly veggies. [* Seitan only if you can handle gluten. Because, it's like 100% gluten! ] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Meat alternatives are a nice thought. I'm glad they exist for people who can accept them in place of meat. I haven't found them to be very good substitutes yet so I'm not there. I've had the impossible whopper, and while it's good, it's not a replacement for me. Hopefully more options come over the years. I'm hopeful for lab grown meat personally since it'd still be meat, just ethically produced. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) It's crazy that people don't like meat substitutes, but if you tell them it's not a meat substitute, but actually a special cow from nepal with a different taste, it's suddenly good and exotic. I hate it when it doesn't taste like animal suffering. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Slaneesh would agree. permalink fedilink source parent [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago Yes they are. They have been for eons. It's not all they are and people should work towards meatless options and ethical meat like lab grown. But animals are definitely a food source. permalink fedilink source parent [–] urandom@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) I don't want to cause plants pain, that's why I eat meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 2 points 1 year ago Hilarious permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nednobbins@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago Yes. It's crazy. That's why the vast majority of us don't do it. It's one thing to be a vegetarian for health or environmental reasons. When you try to convince people that meat==murder, you come across as a wackadoodle. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] trouble@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago (31 children) But I’m hungry permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 31 child comments replies: [+] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone -20 points 1 year ago (30 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 30 child comments replies: [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 22 points 1 year ago (5 children) All animals, us included, are food for other animals, and plants. That's what is called an "ecosystem". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] businessfish@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) buying meat from the grocery store is not an ecosystem permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ushmel@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) city says i can't shoot the squirrels anymore tho permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] PokerChips@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago There are not enough squirrels. They would be extinct quick. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago I live in a no hunt region. So, unless I travel 30 minutes to hunt for 12 hrs, grocery store is the next best thing. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Vandals_handle@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago That's a food web. An ecosystem incorporates the environment organisms live in and how the organisms interact within that environment. The soil, climate and weather are all part of an ecosystem. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mrslt@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (6 children) Human beings are omnivores and nature doesn't moralize. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 year ago “I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs, a very endearing sight, I'm sure you'll agree. And even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged onto a half submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters, who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature's wonders, gentlemen. Mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that is when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.” -Terry Pratchett, Unseen Academicals permalink fedilink source parent [+] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org -11 points 1 year ago (4 children) Good old natural factory meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 6 points 1 year ago (2 children) This is why I primarily only eat what I shoot, or what I catch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago I only eat meat that consents. Anybody want to come over for dinner? Coincidentally, you'll have to sign a waiver. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago But on a serious note, how good is venison? Fucking delicious. You ever make chili with it? Goddamn backstrap chili. Like eating heaven. permalink fedilink source parent [–] lime@feddit.nu 3 points 1 year ago this depends on where you live, surely. i have open field farms all around me that cooperatively own a slaughterhouse. they sell meat in stores under one brand but you can go to any of the farms and get it directly. permalink fedilink source parent [–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 year ago (3 children) All food is cruel. You can, at most, minimize the cruelty. But you should know that millions of insects are killed in agriculture. Insects are indeed animals. You can, if you want, minimize the amount of animals your presence in this world brings to an early death. But you cannot reduce it to zero no even near zero. Probably hundreds of small animals (most insects but surely many other small animals) die each day because things you do. The line on how much do you want to minimize might be on one place for you, and that's ok. But you have to respect other people lines as well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Taleya@aussie.zone 0 points 1 year ago (2 children) This...plants feel pain. Mushrooms may actually be sentient. Everyone draws their own lines, it doesn't make them better or worse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] o1011o@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) There is overwhelming scientific evidence that animals feel pain and are sentient like us, and despite the pop science articles to the contrary there is no scientific evidence that plants feel pain or have sentience at all. Plants respond to stimulus in very complicated ways, that's what we have evidence for. Don't pretend the two are equivalent. Stop getting your ideas from sensationalist pop science garbage and read the actual studies. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Taleya@aussie.zone 2 points 1 year ago So your line is at "feels pain on a level identifiable to something in the animal kingdom" permalink fedilink source parent [–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (4 children) If that were true, we wouldn't be able to digest them. Ever tried eating a tree? Or a boulder? Those aren't food for humans. I'm not gonna argue against moral motivations for veganism, but I will argue against factually incorrect ones. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Lumisal@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqLsus9_YsQ permalink fedilink source parent [+] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SalamenceFury@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* If eaten in large amounts. Also, herbivore animals get cancer too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Life causes cancer, plaque build-up causes heart disease. Nothing was meant to do or eat or kill anything, that's just how life evolved. Again, I'm not arguing over moral stances, I think it's very admirable. But I mean, even just as mammals we've been consuming other animals for more than 200,000,000 years! The reptiles those first mammals evolved from probably ate animals, as the fish those reptiles evolved from probably did as well. Cooked meat is very likely the evolutionary edge that lead to what what we can sentience, it obviously "works" on a biological level. To argue otherwise is delusion. permalink fedilink source parent [–] trouble@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago (4 children) I grew up on a farm and enjoy eating meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AlreadyDefederated@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Have you tried some good alternatives to meat? Like, try seitan* crumbles in a taco. With all the spices and other toppings it's really hard to tell the difference. Also, I find it almost impossible to tell an Impossible Whopper with Cheese from a regular Whopper with Cheese, after all the glop they put on it. I know those are both bottom-of-the-barrel meat choices, but maybe branch out and try a thing or two. If you don't like it - no biggie. I've tried casually dipping my toes into the vegetarian pool with just occasional meat substitutions. Occasionally I find something that's "No way" but more often than not, I find something that is also really tasty. It's not meat, but it's also tasty in a different way, so I don't miss meat as much. I've found vegetarian dishes I actually like. My biggest problem however is getting enough protein in my diet when I start eating mostly veggies. [* Seitan only if you can handle gluten. Because, it's like 100% gluten! ] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Meat alternatives are a nice thought. I'm glad they exist for people who can accept them in place of meat. I haven't found them to be very good substitutes yet so I'm not there. I've had the impossible whopper, and while it's good, it's not a replacement for me. Hopefully more options come over the years. I'm hopeful for lab grown meat personally since it'd still be meat, just ethically produced. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) It's crazy that people don't like meat substitutes, but if you tell them it's not a meat substitute, but actually a special cow from nepal with a different taste, it's suddenly good and exotic. I hate it when it doesn't taste like animal suffering. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Slaneesh would agree. permalink fedilink source parent [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago Yes they are. They have been for eons. It's not all they are and people should work towards meatless options and ethical meat like lab grown. But animals are definitely a food source. permalink fedilink source parent [–] urandom@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) I don't want to cause plants pain, that's why I eat meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 2 points 1 year ago Hilarious permalink fedilink source parent
[+] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone -20 points 1 year ago (30 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 30 child comments replies: [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 22 points 1 year ago (5 children) All animals, us included, are food for other animals, and plants. That's what is called an "ecosystem". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] businessfish@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) buying meat from the grocery store is not an ecosystem permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ushmel@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) city says i can't shoot the squirrels anymore tho permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] PokerChips@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago There are not enough squirrels. They would be extinct quick. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago I live in a no hunt region. So, unless I travel 30 minutes to hunt for 12 hrs, grocery store is the next best thing. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Vandals_handle@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago That's a food web. An ecosystem incorporates the environment organisms live in and how the organisms interact within that environment. The soil, climate and weather are all part of an ecosystem. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mrslt@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (6 children) Human beings are omnivores and nature doesn't moralize. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 year ago “I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs, a very endearing sight, I'm sure you'll agree. And even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged onto a half submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters, who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature's wonders, gentlemen. Mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that is when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.” -Terry Pratchett, Unseen Academicals permalink fedilink source parent [+] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org -11 points 1 year ago (4 children) Good old natural factory meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 6 points 1 year ago (2 children) This is why I primarily only eat what I shoot, or what I catch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago I only eat meat that consents. Anybody want to come over for dinner? Coincidentally, you'll have to sign a waiver. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago But on a serious note, how good is venison? Fucking delicious. You ever make chili with it? Goddamn backstrap chili. Like eating heaven. permalink fedilink source parent [–] lime@feddit.nu 3 points 1 year ago this depends on where you live, surely. i have open field farms all around me that cooperatively own a slaughterhouse. they sell meat in stores under one brand but you can go to any of the farms and get it directly. permalink fedilink source parent [–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 year ago (3 children) All food is cruel. You can, at most, minimize the cruelty. But you should know that millions of insects are killed in agriculture. Insects are indeed animals. You can, if you want, minimize the amount of animals your presence in this world brings to an early death. But you cannot reduce it to zero no even near zero. Probably hundreds of small animals (most insects but surely many other small animals) die each day because things you do. The line on how much do you want to minimize might be on one place for you, and that's ok. But you have to respect other people lines as well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Taleya@aussie.zone 0 points 1 year ago (2 children) This...plants feel pain. Mushrooms may actually be sentient. Everyone draws their own lines, it doesn't make them better or worse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] o1011o@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) There is overwhelming scientific evidence that animals feel pain and are sentient like us, and despite the pop science articles to the contrary there is no scientific evidence that plants feel pain or have sentience at all. Plants respond to stimulus in very complicated ways, that's what we have evidence for. Don't pretend the two are equivalent. Stop getting your ideas from sensationalist pop science garbage and read the actual studies. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Taleya@aussie.zone 2 points 1 year ago So your line is at "feels pain on a level identifiable to something in the animal kingdom" permalink fedilink source parent [–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (4 children) If that were true, we wouldn't be able to digest them. Ever tried eating a tree? Or a boulder? Those aren't food for humans. I'm not gonna argue against moral motivations for veganism, but I will argue against factually incorrect ones. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Lumisal@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqLsus9_YsQ permalink fedilink source parent [+] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SalamenceFury@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* If eaten in large amounts. Also, herbivore animals get cancer too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Life causes cancer, plaque build-up causes heart disease. Nothing was meant to do or eat or kill anything, that's just how life evolved. Again, I'm not arguing over moral stances, I think it's very admirable. But I mean, even just as mammals we've been consuming other animals for more than 200,000,000 years! The reptiles those first mammals evolved from probably ate animals, as the fish those reptiles evolved from probably did as well. Cooked meat is very likely the evolutionary edge that lead to what what we can sentience, it obviously "works" on a biological level. To argue otherwise is delusion. permalink fedilink source parent [–] trouble@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago (4 children) I grew up on a farm and enjoy eating meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AlreadyDefederated@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Have you tried some good alternatives to meat? Like, try seitan* crumbles in a taco. With all the spices and other toppings it's really hard to tell the difference. Also, I find it almost impossible to tell an Impossible Whopper with Cheese from a regular Whopper with Cheese, after all the glop they put on it. I know those are both bottom-of-the-barrel meat choices, but maybe branch out and try a thing or two. If you don't like it - no biggie. I've tried casually dipping my toes into the vegetarian pool with just occasional meat substitutions. Occasionally I find something that's "No way" but more often than not, I find something that is also really tasty. It's not meat, but it's also tasty in a different way, so I don't miss meat as much. I've found vegetarian dishes I actually like. My biggest problem however is getting enough protein in my diet when I start eating mostly veggies. [* Seitan only if you can handle gluten. Because, it's like 100% gluten! ] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Meat alternatives are a nice thought. I'm glad they exist for people who can accept them in place of meat. I haven't found them to be very good substitutes yet so I'm not there. I've had the impossible whopper, and while it's good, it's not a replacement for me. Hopefully more options come over the years. I'm hopeful for lab grown meat personally since it'd still be meat, just ethically produced. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) It's crazy that people don't like meat substitutes, but if you tell them it's not a meat substitute, but actually a special cow from nepal with a different taste, it's suddenly good and exotic. I hate it when it doesn't taste like animal suffering. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Slaneesh would agree. permalink fedilink source parent [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago Yes they are. They have been for eons. It's not all they are and people should work towards meatless options and ethical meat like lab grown. But animals are definitely a food source. permalink fedilink source parent [–] urandom@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) I don't want to cause plants pain, that's why I eat meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 2 points 1 year ago Hilarious permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 22 points 1 year ago (5 children) All animals, us included, are food for other animals, and plants. That's what is called an "ecosystem". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] businessfish@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) buying meat from the grocery store is not an ecosystem permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ushmel@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) city says i can't shoot the squirrels anymore tho permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] PokerChips@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago There are not enough squirrels. They would be extinct quick. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago I live in a no hunt region. So, unless I travel 30 minutes to hunt for 12 hrs, grocery store is the next best thing. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Vandals_handle@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago That's a food web. An ecosystem incorporates the environment organisms live in and how the organisms interact within that environment. The soil, climate and weather are all part of an ecosystem. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] businessfish@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago (3 children) buying meat from the grocery store is not an ecosystem permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Ushmel@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) city says i can't shoot the squirrels anymore tho permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] PokerChips@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago There are not enough squirrels. They would be extinct quick. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago I live in a no hunt region. So, unless I travel 30 minutes to hunt for 12 hrs, grocery store is the next best thing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Ushmel@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) city says i can't shoot the squirrels anymore tho permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] PokerChips@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago There are not enough squirrels. They would be extinct quick. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PokerChips@programming.dev 1 point 1 year ago There are not enough squirrels. They would be extinct quick. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 1 point 1 year ago I live in a no hunt region. So, unless I travel 30 minutes to hunt for 12 hrs, grocery store is the next best thing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Vandals_handle@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago That's a food web. An ecosystem incorporates the environment organisms live in and how the organisms interact within that environment. The soil, climate and weather are all part of an ecosystem. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mrslt@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (6 children) Human beings are omnivores and nature doesn't moralize. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 year ago “I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs, a very endearing sight, I'm sure you'll agree. And even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged onto a half submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters, who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature's wonders, gentlemen. Mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that is when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.” -Terry Pratchett, Unseen Academicals permalink fedilink source parent [+] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org -11 points 1 year ago (4 children) Good old natural factory meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 6 points 1 year ago (2 children) This is why I primarily only eat what I shoot, or what I catch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago I only eat meat that consents. Anybody want to come over for dinner? Coincidentally, you'll have to sign a waiver. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago But on a serious note, how good is venison? Fucking delicious. You ever make chili with it? Goddamn backstrap chili. Like eating heaven. permalink fedilink source parent [–] lime@feddit.nu 3 points 1 year ago this depends on where you live, surely. i have open field farms all around me that cooperatively own a slaughterhouse. they sell meat in stores under one brand but you can go to any of the farms and get it directly. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] samus12345@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 year ago “I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs, a very endearing sight, I'm sure you'll agree. And even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged onto a half submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters, who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature's wonders, gentlemen. Mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that is when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.” -Terry Pratchett, Unseen Academicals permalink fedilink source parent
[+] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org -11 points 1 year ago (4 children) Good old natural factory meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 6 points 1 year ago (2 children) This is why I primarily only eat what I shoot, or what I catch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago I only eat meat that consents. Anybody want to come over for dinner? Coincidentally, you'll have to sign a waiver. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago But on a serious note, how good is venison? Fucking delicious. You ever make chili with it? Goddamn backstrap chili. Like eating heaven. permalink fedilink source parent [–] lime@feddit.nu 3 points 1 year ago this depends on where you live, surely. i have open field farms all around me that cooperatively own a slaughterhouse. they sell meat in stores under one brand but you can go to any of the farms and get it directly. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 6 points 1 year ago (2 children) This is why I primarily only eat what I shoot, or what I catch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago I only eat meat that consents. Anybody want to come over for dinner? Coincidentally, you'll have to sign a waiver. permalink fedilink source parent [–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago But on a serious note, how good is venison? Fucking delicious. You ever make chili with it? Goddamn backstrap chili. Like eating heaven. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago I only eat meat that consents. Anybody want to come over for dinner? Coincidentally, you'll have to sign a waiver. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago But on a serious note, how good is venison? Fucking delicious. You ever make chili with it? Goddamn backstrap chili. Like eating heaven. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] lime@feddit.nu 3 points 1 year ago this depends on where you live, surely. i have open field farms all around me that cooperatively own a slaughterhouse. they sell meat in stores under one brand but you can go to any of the farms and get it directly. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 year ago (3 children) All food is cruel. You can, at most, minimize the cruelty. But you should know that millions of insects are killed in agriculture. Insects are indeed animals. You can, if you want, minimize the amount of animals your presence in this world brings to an early death. But you cannot reduce it to zero no even near zero. Probably hundreds of small animals (most insects but surely many other small animals) die each day because things you do. The line on how much do you want to minimize might be on one place for you, and that's ok. But you have to respect other people lines as well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Taleya@aussie.zone 0 points 1 year ago (2 children) This...plants feel pain. Mushrooms may actually be sentient. Everyone draws their own lines, it doesn't make them better or worse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] o1011o@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) There is overwhelming scientific evidence that animals feel pain and are sentient like us, and despite the pop science articles to the contrary there is no scientific evidence that plants feel pain or have sentience at all. Plants respond to stimulus in very complicated ways, that's what we have evidence for. Don't pretend the two are equivalent. Stop getting your ideas from sensationalist pop science garbage and read the actual studies. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Taleya@aussie.zone 2 points 1 year ago So your line is at "feels pain on a level identifiable to something in the animal kingdom" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 0 points 1 year ago (2 children) This...plants feel pain. Mushrooms may actually be sentient. Everyone draws their own lines, it doesn't make them better or worse. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] o1011o@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) There is overwhelming scientific evidence that animals feel pain and are sentient like us, and despite the pop science articles to the contrary there is no scientific evidence that plants feel pain or have sentience at all. Plants respond to stimulus in very complicated ways, that's what we have evidence for. Don't pretend the two are equivalent. Stop getting your ideas from sensationalist pop science garbage and read the actual studies. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Taleya@aussie.zone 2 points 1 year ago So your line is at "feels pain on a level identifiable to something in the animal kingdom" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] o1011o@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) There is overwhelming scientific evidence that animals feel pain and are sentient like us, and despite the pop science articles to the contrary there is no scientific evidence that plants feel pain or have sentience at all. Plants respond to stimulus in very complicated ways, that's what we have evidence for. Don't pretend the two are equivalent. Stop getting your ideas from sensationalist pop science garbage and read the actual studies. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Taleya@aussie.zone 2 points 1 year ago So your line is at "feels pain on a level identifiable to something in the animal kingdom" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 2 points 1 year ago So your line is at "feels pain on a level identifiable to something in the animal kingdom" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (4 children) If that were true, we wouldn't be able to digest them. Ever tried eating a tree? Or a boulder? Those aren't food for humans. I'm not gonna argue against moral motivations for veganism, but I will argue against factually incorrect ones. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Lumisal@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqLsus9_YsQ permalink fedilink source parent [+] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SalamenceFury@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* If eaten in large amounts. Also, herbivore animals get cancer too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Life causes cancer, plaque build-up causes heart disease. Nothing was meant to do or eat or kill anything, that's just how life evolved. Again, I'm not arguing over moral stances, I think it's very admirable. But I mean, even just as mammals we've been consuming other animals for more than 200,000,000 years! The reptiles those first mammals evolved from probably ate animals, as the fish those reptiles evolved from probably did as well. Cooked meat is very likely the evolutionary edge that lead to what what we can sentience, it obviously "works" on a biological level. To argue otherwise is delusion. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lumisal@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqLsus9_YsQ permalink fedilink source parent
[+] aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SalamenceFury@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* If eaten in large amounts. Also, herbivore animals get cancer too. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Life causes cancer, plaque build-up causes heart disease. Nothing was meant to do or eat or kill anything, that's just how life evolved. Again, I'm not arguing over moral stances, I think it's very admirable. But I mean, even just as mammals we've been consuming other animals for more than 200,000,000 years! The reptiles those first mammals evolved from probably ate animals, as the fish those reptiles evolved from probably did as well. Cooked meat is very likely the evolutionary edge that lead to what what we can sentience, it obviously "works" on a biological level. To argue otherwise is delusion. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SalamenceFury@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago* If eaten in large amounts. Also, herbivore animals get cancer too. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PapaStevesy@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago Life causes cancer, plaque build-up causes heart disease. Nothing was meant to do or eat or kill anything, that's just how life evolved. Again, I'm not arguing over moral stances, I think it's very admirable. But I mean, even just as mammals we've been consuming other animals for more than 200,000,000 years! The reptiles those first mammals evolved from probably ate animals, as the fish those reptiles evolved from probably did as well. Cooked meat is very likely the evolutionary edge that lead to what what we can sentience, it obviously "works" on a biological level. To argue otherwise is delusion. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] trouble@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago (4 children) I grew up on a farm and enjoy eating meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] AlreadyDefederated@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Have you tried some good alternatives to meat? Like, try seitan* crumbles in a taco. With all the spices and other toppings it's really hard to tell the difference. Also, I find it almost impossible to tell an Impossible Whopper with Cheese from a regular Whopper with Cheese, after all the glop they put on it. I know those are both bottom-of-the-barrel meat choices, but maybe branch out and try a thing or two. If you don't like it - no biggie. I've tried casually dipping my toes into the vegetarian pool with just occasional meat substitutions. Occasionally I find something that's "No way" but more often than not, I find something that is also really tasty. It's not meat, but it's also tasty in a different way, so I don't miss meat as much. I've found vegetarian dishes I actually like. My biggest problem however is getting enough protein in my diet when I start eating mostly veggies. [* Seitan only if you can handle gluten. Because, it's like 100% gluten! ] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Meat alternatives are a nice thought. I'm glad they exist for people who can accept them in place of meat. I haven't found them to be very good substitutes yet so I'm not there. I've had the impossible whopper, and while it's good, it's not a replacement for me. Hopefully more options come over the years. I'm hopeful for lab grown meat personally since it'd still be meat, just ethically produced. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) It's crazy that people don't like meat substitutes, but if you tell them it's not a meat substitute, but actually a special cow from nepal with a different taste, it's suddenly good and exotic. I hate it when it doesn't taste like animal suffering. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Slaneesh would agree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AlreadyDefederated@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago (3 children) Have you tried some good alternatives to meat? Like, try seitan* crumbles in a taco. With all the spices and other toppings it's really hard to tell the difference. Also, I find it almost impossible to tell an Impossible Whopper with Cheese from a regular Whopper with Cheese, after all the glop they put on it. I know those are both bottom-of-the-barrel meat choices, but maybe branch out and try a thing or two. If you don't like it - no biggie. I've tried casually dipping my toes into the vegetarian pool with just occasional meat substitutions. Occasionally I find something that's "No way" but more often than not, I find something that is also really tasty. It's not meat, but it's also tasty in a different way, so I don't miss meat as much. I've found vegetarian dishes I actually like. My biggest problem however is getting enough protein in my diet when I start eating mostly veggies. [* Seitan only if you can handle gluten. Because, it's like 100% gluten! ] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Meat alternatives are a nice thought. I'm glad they exist for people who can accept them in place of meat. I haven't found them to be very good substitutes yet so I'm not there. I've had the impossible whopper, and while it's good, it's not a replacement for me. Hopefully more options come over the years. I'm hopeful for lab grown meat personally since it'd still be meat, just ethically produced. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) It's crazy that people don't like meat substitutes, but if you tell them it's not a meat substitute, but actually a special cow from nepal with a different taste, it's suddenly good and exotic. I hate it when it doesn't taste like animal suffering. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Slaneesh would agree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children) Meat alternatives are a nice thought. I'm glad they exist for people who can accept them in place of meat. I haven't found them to be very good substitutes yet so I'm not there. I've had the impossible whopper, and while it's good, it's not a replacement for me. Hopefully more options come over the years. I'm hopeful for lab grown meat personally since it'd still be meat, just ethically produced. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) It's crazy that people don't like meat substitutes, but if you tell them it's not a meat substitute, but actually a special cow from nepal with a different taste, it's suddenly good and exotic. I hate it when it doesn't taste like animal suffering. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Slaneesh would agree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) It's crazy that people don't like meat substitutes, but if you tell them it's not a meat substitute, but actually a special cow from nepal with a different taste, it's suddenly good and exotic. I hate it when it doesn't taste like animal suffering. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Slaneesh would agree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago Slaneesh would agree. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago Yes they are. They have been for eons. It's not all they are and people should work towards meatless options and ethical meat like lab grown. But animals are definitely a food source. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] urandom@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) I don't want to cause plants pain, that's why I eat meat permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 2 points 1 year ago Hilarious permalink fedilink source parent