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[–] 65 points 1 year ago (29 children)

Over here in Germany where everybody has at least 3 weeks paid time off (being ill does not count to this contingent btw), it is common that leaves are planned in the beginning of the year for larger vacations, so there are no collisions.

Also, if you have children you have priority during school breaks for paied leaves.

This concept could be copied by us employers also, I wonder why not? Maybe because this way you can pressure your employees with your vacation as leverage

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  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    And in this system, it is common courtesy to make effort to make sure your team has as few problems as possible from your absence. Of course it is also common courtesy that you are not contact for anything work related during your vacation time.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    This is exactly what seems to be missing in the US: courtesy.

    A system that gives everyone entitled leave means better employees and less downtime due to leave (surprise surprise, courtesy leads to coordination).

    Shockingly this leads to people caring about their team mates, and things aren't zero sum anymore.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    In the Netherlands we have laws in place to ensure what is called "good employership" and "good employeeship". It's basically the minimum of what you should expect from each other in matters of courtesy. Good employership as a minimum states an employer should be thoroughly, not abuse his powers as an employer, substantiate big decisions regarding employees, live up to expectations, treat all employees equal and provide good insurance.

    Good employeeship is seen as being at work at agreed upon times (this includes taking PTO), doing suitable work, being honest, loyalty to a certain degree like not starting a company without consultation and "stealing" work from the employer, and descretion/secrecy regarding company sensitive information.

    It's all very general, and most of the time further explained either in additional laws or in a "CAO", a collective working conditions agreement which is reviewed periodically with the unions (about 70-75% of employees have such an agreement).

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    if my compensation includes paid time off, I am taking it. my notifications are not requests when the date is weeks or months out. it is informational only.

    i do not and never have accepted blackout day etc.

    i’m honest with this during the hiring process and it’s, honestly, worked out just fine. especially if you frame it as a part of forward thinking communication and the manager is trying to pretend they know what they are doing.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If communicated and part of the deal, great. I personally think that an employment benefits both parties. And with the mentioned curtisyz that works well.

    For example, I leave early for appointments, in the last weeks we had some troubles, so dinner for the hole family was on the employer, a while week of takeouts.

    So, if my employer tells me that my vacation colides with a project, I am certain that he checked every possibility, and we try to find solutions, like interruptijg the vacation for a day and taking part in meetings from my hotel room.

    And if I can not trust my employer enough, then I move on. I am in the lucky position that the stuff I do, most people can't.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    "If my compensation includes paid time off"

    The "If" is exactly the problem in America. Most countries with mandatory vacation specifically incentivise employees to use it all (little to no carry over, no payout at the end of year).

    The entire purpose is that you use it all and are refreshed and more invested in your job.

    You'd get looked at funny if you declared you planned on using your PTO, that's like saying you plan on taking a lunch break EVERY DAY. It's just expected

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    Over here in Germany where everybody has at least 3 weeks paid time off (being ill does not count to this contingent btw), it is common that leaves are planned in the beginning of the year for larger vacations, so there are no collisions.

    Also, if you have children you have priority during school breaks for paied leaves.

    This concept could be copied by us employers also, I wonder why not? Maybe because this way you can pressure your employees with your vacation as leverage

    And in this system, it is common courtesy to make effort to make sure your team has as few problems as possible from your absence. Of course it is also common courtesy that you are not contact for anything work related during your vacation time.

    All of this is possible in North America, but you need a union job.

    My day-job is a unionionized Managed Services gig subsidiary of a larger company. The rest of the company fits a stereotype we see in the deLoittes and IBM Pro Servs of the world, but the union contract gives us a sane bit of breathing room:

    • 9x9 'compressed' time so you get one day off each week regardless
    • statutory holidays are sacred
    • OT for weekend work, but it quickly goes double-time so it's rare; and holidays are 2.5x quickly
    • standby time is paid. Call-outs are paid.
    • mandated remote work capability. It's in the union contract, guys, so we can Work From Home Office or Work From HQ as best suits us

    The combo of compressed time, stats and careful placement of my 21 vacation days this year will give me 7 carefully-placed weeks off; it's not contiguous, but it's really great.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Can you explain 9x9 to me? That's confusing. 24x7, 8x5 yeah. But you can't mean that notation? Or did the US finally change to a 10 day week?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    9 working hours, 9 days. you hit 80 hours in nine days, so the tenth day you get off. basically an extra day off every other week

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    My previous employer in the US was pretty liberal with their time off policy. I would just submit a request, and my manager would approve or not approve. 100% of the time when they didn't approve, it was because the email had gotten lost in their in box, so I just pestered them about it. It was assumed that employees would check with project managers of projects they were on to make sure their vacations wouldn't cause problems for the projects - which basically just meant that I would tell my PMs that I was planning to take X days off about a month from now, and they would say "thanks for letting me know, I'll work that into the project schedule!"

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    it is with ‘skilled’ labor

    sadly this pool keeps getting smaller and smaller

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I don't see why this pool should logically get smaller. In the other hand though, the USA avoids the way, other countries are handling job training , like the devil water.

    No, skilled labor gets more important from day to day. But it costs more. So let's hire people that will settle for less, and kick them out if they reach there limit.

    In most countries, you have a multi year on the job training + school before you consideres a skilled worker in this job. I for example carry the title of a "Journeyman of Electronics and Communication". I am not working in this field anymore, but usually, most people stay with that they learned.

    Long ramble short: no the pool of skilled jobs is shrinking, capitalism is expanding

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    mostly because that skilled labor pool has been primarily in tech the last 2 decades in the US and tech bro billionaires are currently doing their best to fuck all these workers over for profits

    sadly much of the industry will fallow the FAANG corps lead with pay/benefits

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    you can pressure your employees with your vacation as leverage

    Most places start asking for vacation requests a month or two out before schools do theirs. The US definitely keeps a tighter leash on vacation time than Europe. General US sick-time policy is an abomination.

    In my industry, the standard is "unlimited" PTO/Sick for salary. You don't have a limit of what you can take, but it has to be OK'd by your manager. They expect you to take at least 4 weeks.

    But if you leave, or they let you go, they don't have to pay you for time accrued.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Let me guess - they only approve when it's a good time, and somehow it's seldom a good time?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    No we're kind of a unicorn. They're really good about it.

    Couple months ma/pa ternity leave

    When I moved, I took most of six weeks off.

    I work like hell hour wise normally tho so it's not sunshine and roses.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Most places start asking for vacation requests a month or two out before schools do theirs.

    Sorry, I'm confused. What does this mean? Do schools in other countries not make their annual schedules before the school year begins? Or do "most places" you reference only allow you to ask for vacation during a certain calendar month? Or am I way off with both of those guesses?

    Most places I've worked ask for people to request vacation by a minimum of one month before said-vacation occurs. Where I live, schools have their entire calendar (including holidays and extended breaks) planned by August. So if somebody wanted to request time off for winter or spring break, they'd probably have plenty of time to coordinate. Does it work differently where you live?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Most salary US businesses realize there is a need for coordinated school vacation schedules.

    Every place I've worked has managers starting to ask when people are going to take vacation around March or so for the June/July season so that they can try to talk people into moving vacations around for coverage.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Also, if you have children you have priority during school breaks for paied leaves.

    This surprises me actually, it seems to have a built-in discrimination from the outset.

    I've got little PhobosAnomalies at home, and my jobs over the years have taken me all over the place so school holidays haven't been a priority for me. That said, I wouldn't personally consider my need to have a week or two off in the school holidays or summer holidays as a priority, more just the same importance of everyone else. After all, having little'uns is mostly a choice (or sometimes, the choice isn't even available 😢) so it seems like a world of employment law hurt to grant the parents a higher level of priority than others.

    That said, I ain't in Germany so it's a moot point really.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Yes, no. We have strict school attendece laws (and no homeschooling btw), so you can't just do some vacation sometimes else this year.

    Also, the kids have a right to free time and vacation.

    And: traveling outside school breaks is far more convenient anyways.. no kids at the pool

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    It’s just left up to the employers. My employer gives me 4 weeks paid vacation, with sick time being additional to that and they have never given me a hard time for taking time off, even with just a few days notice.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    We have a mixture. We have laws mandate minimum to vacation time, that the employer must respect the preferred dates for the free time as stated by its employees and only may deny or cancel vacation if the company would take major damage. And major as in: we have to let people go or even close major.

    If the employer cancels your vacation, he must compensate you in full for all financial losses due to bookings for example.

    In addition, paid time off and working hours are if course also benefits that could be used to attract employees

    30 days vacation/ year , to 38 hour week, working from wherever I want, even in some pool in some hotel, and of course, paid sick leave. That is my current luxury.

    And don't forget: about 10 work free holidays per year ;)

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    That sounds great. I have 10 days of vacation a year (not required by law) and 3 sick days (required by law in my state). 60-80 hours a week, and this is a "good" job. It's been 12 years and I can't keep this up much longer. But I look at other people's jobs for a living, and I know it could be worse.

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