Map Enthusiasts

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[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

The people of Gaza voted for Hamas, an overtly terrorist group with a genocidal manifesto, as their elected government back in ~~2007~~2006. Naturally that was their last election.

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[–] guy@piefed.social 6 points 1 year ago (10 children)

And the people of North Korea, China, Russia etc etc vote for their government regularly.

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[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (9 children)

North Korea does not hold elections. China does not hold elections outside its ruling Communist Party. Russia holds occasional sham elections with stooge candidates.

The Palestinian election involved numerous parties and candidates, including leftist and liberals, and the Hamas victory was generally recognized as fair.

Clearly you have very little idea about this whole subject. I'd guess like most others here.

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[–] guy@piefed.social 5 points 1 year ago (8 children)

North Korea absolutely holds elections and they can even boast with having 100% voting participation. Their last election was 2019. And so does China..

Anyway, you can't possible argue that Hamas is the legally elected government in Gaza after abolishing all other political parties and not holding an election for 20 years. Maybe they once was, but they're no longer and not since a long time.

You obviously have even a less idea about this whole subject.

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[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Given that you've clearly just looked these things up to justify yourself post-hoc, you should now know that there's no comparison with sham plebiscites in totalitarian countries (China holds proper-ish elections, at local level only, and only for vetted Communist Party candidates).

My point stands. The people of Gaza chose Hamas, a genocidal terrorist group, in a free and fair election. That doesn't justify what's happening to them today, but it's a fact.

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[–] guy@piefed.social 3 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

Given that you’ve clearly just looked these things up

Even if I did, it is true, is it not? It is not that hard to admit when you are faulty. You can do it, I believe in you!

No, your point is wrong and dumb. You proclaim Hamas to be the legally elected government which they maybe was in 2006, but as I said, that was almost 20 years go and after abolishing all political opposition. Now Hamas holds (held lmao) the same grip over Gaza as any other authoritarian regime does. And if you are still going to argue that this makes them the legal elected leaders, than China, Russia, Belarus, North Korea and whatever other state you want also has legally elected leaders and your arguing against their elections makes no sense.

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[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Admit that I've got what wrong? I've only ever stated established facts. Many dictatorships are collapsed democracies. Russians also chose to abandon their democracy, having voted too many times for Putin.

Sure, the current situation is particularly unfair on the (very many) Gazans who were too young to vote 19 years ago. I'm sure we can agree on that.

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[–] guy@piefed.social 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

I’ve only ever stated established facts. North Korea does not hold elections. China does not hold elections outside its ruling Communist Party.

Although, China is a one-party state so you at least got that part right. On the other hand

totalitarian countries (China holds proper-ish elections[...])

China is not a totalitarian country (yet at least), so that is wrong..

Anyway, the current situation is particularly unfair to all Gazans who aren't combatants, so that we can agree on. I think it is clear to everyone else that Hamas is not the legal government in Gaza, and that is obviously nothing I can force you to change your mind about, but I, with friendliness, suggest you think about why you differ in reasoning between Hamas and other authoritarian regimes.

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[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

This seems to be your personal definition of "totalitarian". From what I understand of the consensus of actual political scientists, North Korea has been totalitarian for decades and Russia and China both now pass the bar too (since the Ukraine invasion and Xi's tech authoritarian ramp-up, respectively).

with friendliness, suggest you think about

Difficult to finish a sentence with condescension level at this pitch.

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[–] guy@piefed.social 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

I assure you it is not. North Korea is definitely totalitarian but neither Russia nor China is. They're on their way to be, but aren't. Especially Russia was a very long way from being totalitarian until, as you said, the invasion of Ukraine.

I'm sorry, it was not meant to be condescending. I just wanted to point out that you held two different standards between different authoritarian regimes and that you might want to figure out why to come to a better conclusion, my bad.

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[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

I assure you

Who cares what you assure me? We're talking about definitions. Yours are not those of the people who study these things closely.

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[–] guy@piefed.social 0 points 1 year ago

Well fuck you mate. My field of study is political science and I can tell that yours isn't.

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[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 1 point 1 year ago

During wars there is generally no elections let alone during occupation