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Two women, potentially a gay couple, UK, 1890s (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/historyporn@lemmy.world
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[–] 14 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

Isn't presuming every photo like this as gay almost as bad as presuming there were no gays in history?

Lots of friends have fun and take photos like this. I have photos with friends where we look at each other like this. One could be more masculine or dominant and they're in love. They might also be playing dress up and having fun. Who knows unless someone has documented history here.

I'm just saying that while I usually love the "they were just roommates" mockery and acknowledging clearly LGBTQIA+ situations overlooked in history, I also feel like assuming it's always a gay situation is potentially as bad. Forcing a narrative rather than saying we aren't sure.

I appreciate OP saying "potentially."

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    This is the earliest I can trace this photo back to.

    It was found in a collection of family photos, but the subjects of this photo are unknown.

    Since they do not appear to be erased from their family's history however, any relationship between the two of them would've likely have been a very well kept secret.

    I agree with you that we owe it to LGBTQ+ history to be accurate. This photo has been widely circulated online, and because there is almost no information that can be gleamed from this, very different narratives have been suggested for this photo including ones that are narratively bad for LGBTQ+ history. For instance, there is a persistent and completely unfounded rumor tied to this picture that one of the subjects of this picture went mad with love and killed the other.

    As far as constructing historical narratives for your cause goes, saying that these two women are in love with each other is definitely on the less egregious side. However, it should probably be considered bad-form to construct narratives based on such scant evidence, as that gives permission for wild claims and speculation.

    How many people got the wrong impression about LGBTQ+ history because they thought these two killed eachother? The answer is probably more than zero.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean I would have agreed with you except, as you mentioned, OP said "potentially," so that kind of invalidates your entire point, even if other people engage in this kind of behaviour.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    You are right. But.

    This specific posing style (cross-dressing and looking at eachother in the manner of married couples) has a known role in queer history, many similar photos exists of known queer couples.

    And in many cases, these photos would be dangerous to produce and own. In many places illegal, in most places frowned upon. And since a photo like this was expensive and planning was necessary, their playing with the camera would need to be advanced. So, to create a photo like this involved dedication and risk taking.

    But you are right, without actual letters or such, we cannot know. It is not a completely random assumption that they are in a relationship, though.

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