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Might as well say it out loud. (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/aiop@lemmy.world
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Tolerance for the intolerant is suicide for society. People who deny human rights for others deserve no human rights for themselves. They must be ridiculed, ostracized, outlawed, and if they still won't shut up, they must be beaten senseless.
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[–] 6 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Kirk was directly tied into the Trump administration. He himself sent busloads of followers to help storm the capital. Kirk's jobs was to convince people that the genocidal plans of the Christian Nationalists are OK and should be celebrated and expanded. By the time you get to the level of power and influence of Kirk, you're not really a private citizen anymore. He was instrumental in getting Trump elected. Yes, he doesn't have a formal position in the government, but most of the charges against Streicher were for things that had nothing to do with the little bit of power he briefly had.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Kirk was a piece of shit, you're not going to find me defending him for what he did or stood for. My point is that the way he got killed is not acceptable. He shouldn't get honored or anything like because fuck him, but cheering the way he got killed is not okay either. He wasn't killed under the death penalty by the state, there was no due process, and there wasn't even a valid reason for his death. He was gunned down in broad daylight in the middle of a public crowd by some random guy who didn't like his political views... how is that not fucking crazy to you? Y

    ou're trying very hard to justify it because you don't like him, but you don't seem to understand that this isn't about him specifically. I don't like Kirk either, but you're not going to find me trying justify this type of political violence because it sets a dangerous precedent that violence is an acceptable part of political discourse. Political violence is always a two way street. Just as you're trying to justify and cheer on this guy's death and how he was killed, you're making it more normalized and more likely that some conservative whacko isn't to shoot down some left wing figurehead, and they'll use the very same arguments and justifications that you're using now. If you can't accept someone like Hasan Piker or Nina Turner getting gunned down, then why would you cheer this on? If you condemn their deaths, but not Kirk's death or others like him, then you don't have any principles to stand on.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Sorry. Don't lecture to me about the dangers of political violence when we're talking about someone that actively championed literal genocide. In a just world he would have been tried and hanged for crimes against humanity.

    Kirk already engaged in political violence. He encouraged his followers to countless acts of violence. You're just mad when people dare to fight back against their oppressors. You call it a two way street, but it was already a one-way street. Right wingers are allowed to plot literal genocide, and the rest of us are supposed to just sit back and pretend it's just fine and normal.

    No, sorry. Fuck everything about that. The world is a better place with Charlie Kirk firmly in the ground. He was a mass murderer.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    I already made it clear multiple time that I don't like Kirk or what he stood for, but even I, as someone who can't stand him, can clearly see that you're just making shit up as you go try to come up with anything to justify his murder. It's honestly embarrassing. It's so obvious that you lack the merits to come up with a genuine case to justify his murder because you don't have any principles to stand on whatsoever. This is evidenced by the fact that you're unable to even acknowledge any point I've made, let alone give any counter argument as to why you disagree.

    Face it, given your melt down here, it's crystal clear that you're aware that your stance is simply indefensible because you're only possible positions is to be a hypocrite, a tyrant, or both. Nobody with any reasonable set of morals, basic understanding of history, or just logically thinking through the consequences can come up with a rational defense for something so unbelievably backwards and dangerous as trying to cheer on political violence. It's an inherently absurd stance.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    And the Trump administration has not yet committed any Holocausts or genocide yet. At this point in time it is still "future crime". The Trump admin hasn't been convicted in the Hague of genocide.

    Once Trump opens death camps and starts exterminating LGBTQ people, only then does Kirk rises to the level of Streicher. Until that point, it is execution for political disagreement and free speech. You don't have to like the guy in any way for that to be wrong.

    We don't want to set a precedent that the best way to change someone's political ideology is to kill them to eliminate that ideology.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    I feel like you're reading to me a yugioh trap card that only activates when our opponent summons a big monster. God, the waiting must be agony.

    You don't have to like the guy in any way for that to be wrong.

    I think death just makes you feel icky. Like, in general.

    I don't care that Kirk died. I'm not saying it's a good omen for things to come, exactly, but I can't even pretend to give a shit. The world does not need him.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    I really don't know how I should reply to this. Like yes, murder in general is something I am not fond of, and I am pretty sure that is a normal response?

    Politically motivated murder is also something I find a specific version of repugnant, no matter the politics of the victims. I think the same about the Minnesota legislators. I feel the same way about the attack on Paul Pelosi, and I think Nancy should be a criminal. Neither deserve to be killed. Killing political opponents is the ultimate breakdown of society.

    I am not squeamish about death in general however, be it war or accidents or suicide. Death happens, it's part of life. I can look as Russian soldiers dieing in Ukraine as both a senseless waste of life and totally necessary and warranted at the same time as they are an invading army. I may even experience some schadenfreude, but know intellectually that it's not something that should be celebrated.

    If someone does something stupid like try to pet the Bison in Yellowstone, I think it's tragic for their family while being the obvious outcome of their jack of judgement. Before you make the comparison, one side of that obvious outcome of stupidity is a literal wild animal without the ability to reason.

    It's the murder part that makes me "feel icky", not the death part.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I may even experience some schadenfreude,

    Why are you describing this to me like you're getting a secret snack from the kitchen.

    and I am pretty sure that is a normal response?

    It is, but it's strongest among people who were taught that wishing ill on the ones cracking their whip is impolite.

    Kirk's final words on this great green earth were "tranny tranny tranny, black gang violence, 13:50." Is this really worth ruining your mood over? Like, it's Sunday, you should take your son to the park or something.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    It is, but it's strongest among people who were taught that wishing ill on the ones cracking their whip is impolite.

    It's strongest among those that were taught that everyone is human.

    Charlie Kirk's death may or may not be worth ruining anyone's mood over, but sectarian violence that threatens to snowball is. Even if the shooter turns out to be an even further right white Christian nationalist doing this to cause a further erosion of the divide, it works if people on the left are celebrating.

    Oh well, you know what they say, and eye for an eye will blind my enemies more and then everything will be just fine.

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