No worries, I used to support the Democrats! But that was before I started actually paying attention to politics and following the news. As soon as I did, it became clear to me that they were just wolves in sheep's clothing, and are almost as bad as the Repblicans.

Not knowing things is fine, as it gives you a chance to learn and grow. It's chosing what to do with the new information that matters.

Online dialogue tends to disuade from that, and often pushes towards polarization. I apologize if I was overly polarized, as I often get attacked from people who refute information, instead of internalizing it.

Fair enough. I guess I was too polarized from my time on reddit to consider anyone voting something else. Thanks for giving me perspective

Nothing you have argued is an argument that tells me I should vote for the orange child rapist.

Uh, you are technically correct, but I don't know what your talking about. I never advocated for you voting for him. I hate him more than I hate the Democrats.

I had no option on my ballot that doesn’t suck.

Then do a write-in

I am not going to run for office, and I am not going to die fighting the assholes that are in charge.

Yeah, giving up seems like your strategy. I'm saying that is a bad strategy, that has openly not worked so far.

I want better, but I have no power to do anything except throw my own life away.

Well, unlike you, I don't think fighting fascim and genocide is "throwing your life away". I think those are pretty worthwhile causes to fight against.

You also do have power, in other options than that: Help out locally at homeless shelters, food banks, street-cleanups, envrionmental cleanups. Pass out fliers, support mutual-aid groups, etc.

Nothing you have argued is an argument that tells me I should vote for the orange child rapist. I had no option on my ballot that doesn't suck. I am not going to run for office, and I am not going to die fighting the assholes that are in charge. I want better, but I have no power to do anything except throw my own life away.

I generally vote Green, but, as little as I know about them, PSL looks OK too.

But other parties won’t get any seats.

I don't fight against fascism and it's supporters because I think I'm going to win, I fight against fascism and it's supporters because I think it's evil.

So who would you vote for?

Republicans are currently leaning pretty heavily towards fascism, and Dems still make things worse over time. But other parties won't get any seats. So who would you vote?

I know the Dems suck, I just don’t think you’ll be able to vote your way out of this shit.

Oh, yeah, 100%. I'm not saying voting is all you should do at all.

But I’m not American, so idk the intricacies of your system. What would you say is the best way to get away from the 2 party system?

🔥 🍾 🔥

It's going to take a revolution

I know the Dems suck, I just don't think you'll be able to vote your way out of this shit.

But I'm not American, so idk the intricacies of your system. What would you say is the best way to get away from the 2 party system?

I see your point, but going for the worse option so people wake up is rather bold.

I don't know where you got that reasoning, I never said it.

I’m a white cis man, I’d be the last person to really have any consequences from that. And I can’t gamble the safety of other groups like that.

As a fellow white cis man, not only are you gambling with the safety of other groups by voting for the Democrats, you are losing that gamble on a daily basis. When the Dems have been in power, they've been kidnapping, torturing, mass deporting, etc marginalized people all the time. They also help and enable the Republicans. They aren't fighting against the Republicans, they are on the same team, building out the same system.

I’m not saying be complicit. Strike, protest and riot. Make your voice heard. Call for a parliamentary democracy, whatever.

Sure, but know that the Democrats stand side-by-side with the Republicans to stop that type of action from being successful.

Didn't Harris say Iran was the biggest adversary or some shit? It's crazy you believe it'd have been different under the democrats when historically they're the same outside of your borders. Even AOC is shit at foreign affairs, and Mamdani did his part in legitimizing the shit they did to Venezuela and Cuba. So no, you're wrong, and if you see us as humans you gotta be better and do better so we have a world tomorrow, and so our neighbors don't get disappeared or bombed in the meantime.

I see your point, but going for the worse option so people wake up is rather bold. And at least I can't do that with good conscience, because I'm a white cis man, I'd be the last person to really have any consequences from that. And I can't gamble the safety of other groups like that.

I'm not saying be complicit. Strike, protest and riot. Make your voice heard. Call for a parliamentary democracy, whatever.

Just cast your vote for them so the country goes to shit a bit slower and prepare for actual change in your spare time.

I'm not sure that's useful. The Dems are a short-term subtraction of harm, but a long-term multiplication of harm. When they get elected, the fascist system keeps getting built out, but it's all hidden away so that it's not so obvious.

Voting for a 3rd party will never give them any legislative power...

Yeah, that's what I want. I dont want the Dems to have power. Just like I don't want the Republicans to have power.

I'm not saying campaign for them or support them in any way. Just cast your vote for them so the country goes to shit a bit slower and prepare for actual change in your spare time. Organize a protest, join a union, burn a billionaire at a stake.

Voting for a 3rd party will never give them any legislative power bc of your weird ass election system. If it was a parliamentary system sure, but not with whatever you got.

By Israel, do you mean the new nazis?

Do you seriously think these numbers prove anything? All these numbers say is that initial stages of the genocide were more intense and as Israel achieved more of its ethnic cleansing goals it slowed down. If Trump was in office before 2025, those numbers would not decrease. One would have to be really delusional to think Trump might have possibly slowed down the genocide in Gaza. He is a guy who makes AI videos of himself bombing Gaza and building resorts there. The fact remains previous democrat governments and Trump have supported Israel in this genocide just as much. There is atleast internally more people in democrats who oppose supporting Israel than there is in Republicans. But ofcourse if the issue is that Democrats are more willing to aid Ukraine than Trump, that should perhaps be your talking point rather than trying to prove Trump is better for Gaza which is funny.

I have those hopes and fears too. I also hope that the rest of the world can contain and mitigate our damage, but I also don't think anyone is coming to save us. It's going to be up to us to save ourselves.

I am optimistic that we can do that, even though it will be painful

I worry about it too, how to help people and how to prepare. I hope that the American state's terminal belligerence can force enough of the rest of the world into cooperation against it to create the kind of framework we need to deal with the worst of climate collapse and maybe nurse our planet to better health. But yeah, with the bottomless depravity we know the empire is capable of, you'd be crazy not to be worried. It can be paralyzing when you try to take in the scale of the threat, and in these times I find refuge in trying to build with what few real life comrades I have.

I think I’ve seen you pop up a couple of times saying “The Democratic Party also murdered more Palestinians than the Republican Party”. What do you mean by that and what are the sources?

You probably saw u/geneva_convenience say it before, not me.

The figures I'll provide here will be a severe undercount, because they'll be from the Gaza Health Ministry's verified numbers and thus will not include for example bodies trapped under rubble. It also will not include "non-violent" causes of death such as starvation and sickness.

January 2025 - At least 47,354 Palestinians murdered. (This is when Biden left office)
October 2026 - At least 74,494 Palestinians murdered. (27,140 killed since Trump took office)

I didn’t think the US was really all that directly involved in the Palestinian conflict

Then you should really educate yourself. You're both calling the genocide a conflict and denying American involvement in it. It's been three fucking years.

Why waste your time on a party that is going to perpetuate the problem, when there are other parties that are fighting against the problem.

I think I've seen you pop up a couple of times saying "The Democratic Party also murdered more Palestinians than the Republican Party". What do you mean by that and what are the sources?

I didn't think the US was really all that directly involved in the Palestinian conflict, but more tacitly responsible for arming Israel and not trying to rein them in.

Additionally, if you're talking about Biden vs Trump admins as your timeline for dem/repub, that's really just different phases of the conflict rather than one admin doing anything more/less. If anything, the real relief that Palestine has gotten is Israel dragging the US into war with Iran. Can't really expend resources on Palestine when fighting a country that's equally capable.

Absolutely. I still want to see America go down, but it will have negative external consequences.

Oh, total agreement there. I'm not saying that the American empire shouldn't die, just that it will cause damage when it does.

They sell plenty of weapons that kill civilians.

That's true, a wounded animal lashes out. But these death throes, as dramatic as they are, are still so much less deadly than business as usual. It's like the last set of nazis: putting them down did require incredible violence, but nowhere near as much violence as they would have visited on the world otherwise.

I won't lie about the situation, the capitalism is late-stage and all over our body. Our only choices are the pain of surgery or an agonizing death by cancer.

I agree, proper change sure as shit isn't coming from the Dems, but you can still try to pick the lesser of 2 evils in the meantime.