[+] -18 points 2 months ago

It's possible he is actually racist, I don't know, but I agree with you that the word fascist is being thrown around much too easily.

The problem I see is people don't seem willing to have good-faith discussions or accept that other equally valid perspectives can exist.

Out of sheer curiosity I said this to my local LLM:

is it a waste of time to argue with people who are wrong on the internet?

Usually, yes—if your goal is to change their mind. Internet arguments often reward winning, performance, and group approval more than honest reconsideration.

It can still be worthwhile when:

- Someone else might learn from the exchange.
- The claim could cause real harm if left unchallenged.
- The person seems curious and is engaging in good faith.
- You can provide a concise correction with evidence and then stop.

A useful rule: make one clear point, support it briefly, and watch their response. If they ignore evidence, shift the goalposts, insult you, or repeat the same claim, disengage. You don’t have to attend every argument you’re invited to.
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  • [+] -27 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (11 children)

    Friendly reminder that lamenting your native country losing its identity and making you a minority is not inherently xenophobic, racist or fascist. Would you want that to happen to you?

    Not trying to defend DHH per se but I think people are twisting words around and blowing things WAY out of proportion to fit some narrative. I've read the posts in question and he has not actually called for any violence nor wished anyone to get hurt. He has not claimed anyone doesn't have a right to exist. Not everyone is the best at articulating their thoughts properly, and we shouldn't default to assume the worst possible intent. Without actually talking to the guy and getting real clarification, I'd say it's a bit too dangerous to make such wild sweeping claims like I keep seeing.

    Or this one:

    When gypsies take over public spaces, you deport them.

    Let's rephrase this a different way:

    "When illegal immigrants overwhelm a city, you deport them"

    How do you know that's not all he meant? People are taking great liberties interpreting subjective terminology here.

    If you're going to have a kneejerk reaction and act like only your opinion matters and nothing could possibly change it, well that's not reasoned and rational debate, is it? Just downvote and move on I guess if you disagree with me.

    Also, the irony of people on lobsters hating on the guy while their own site runs on Rails, seems completely lost on them.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    We cannot engage in a fight or expose ourselves to manipulations that threaten the lives of these people and their loved ones

    That's exactly what they were hoping for.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Yes I have read the stories that people always point to as their "proof", and 1. I think everyone twists his (poorly chosen) phrasing to fit a specific narrative that is not reflective of any actual intent, and 2. I don't believe he actually wants to hurt anyone.

    As far as I know, nobody has confronted him about these posts and gotten any clarification of his intent, they just want to crucify and not believe any other perspectives because it fuels their confirmation bias.

    The "wild comment" (according to someone) I made elsewhere about his London post:

    Of course Brits don’t want to become a minority in their home country… who would? We all know how badly they are treated

    To me, complaining about too many immigrants does not inherently imply someone is racist, xenophobic or claiming anyone doesn't have a right to exist (the most common criticisms I see from his "proof" posts) as countries do need a healthy balance of immigration to work well... too much or too little can both be problematic for several different reasons that have nothing to do with where they came from or what they look like.

    Imagine if people called you racist simply because the community/culture you grew up around is what you're used to and no longer what's all around you, and you never asked for such change... of course some people won't like it, but that doesn't mean they dislike the people themselves, just the situation.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    I'm not playing defense for any particular perspective, I just try to understand all sides and get other people to see different perspectives before forming their own opinions.

    There’s no good reason to hold strong principles vaguely except obfuscation.

    As a rule, strong feelings about issues do not emerge from deep understanding.

    your argument was cowardly

    If you can't argue your position without attacking a person's character, you already lost the argument.

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  • [–] -5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    I think you missed the first part of my comment though.

    Being "better" (which is subjective) doesn't mean any other positions are automatically intolerant or "fascist."

    I think people are grossly misunderstanding his intent and framing it in the worst possible interpretation.

    DHH never said he wanted anyone dead. He never said to shoot anyone. He never said anyone shouldn't exist.

    It's natural to not want to become a minority yourself. We know how badly they are treated. People often have natural preferences for their own culture and people, and they can still want those things while also acknowledging other people can exist... but not everyone agrees on the most appropriate balance.

    Mass immigration undeniably brings with it certain logistical, economical and cultural aspects to the table.

    I have no problem with any specific people immigrating to my country, but that doesn't mean I want all my local culture, friends and favorite restaurants to be replaced with everything else from another country. You need balance.

    Even if someone faced with that same situation said something tone-deaf like "these need to go home"... that doesn't necessarily mean they want them dead or that they think they don't have a right to exist, or even that they are racist. They might just not like change in general, or like I mentioned, they feel like part of their (local) culture is disappearing. They just might not have the best way of articulating that.

    And similarly, I think we should not be so quick to judge their intent without actually talking to them about it.

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  • [–] -3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    Then why say it in that way if you don't disagree? To me it sounds like you're specifically trying to paint the company in a bad light.

    Their priorities dont align with the staff.

    Perhaps they simply disagree with the staff? Again that doesn't make them wrong. It's possible the staff are simply misinformed on the real intent of what he was trying to say.

    Of course Brits don't want to become a minority in their home country... who would? We all know how badly they are treated.

    Just because someone can't articulate their thoughts in the friendliest way, doesn't mean they deserve to be hanged. And just like what Karimov said, no single person gets to be the arbiter of what everyone else's priorities should be.

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  • [+] -11 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    The paradox clears itself up if you look at what tolerance actually is. It's simply not interfering with people's agency over themselves. Given that your right to self-agency doesn't entitle you to restrict others' self-agency, behavior that does try restricting others' agency is automatically not included in "tolerance."

    I want them banned from our communities

    So you want to call people fascists and nazis while also excluding people whose opinions you don't like? The irony is downright wild.

    To reiterate what Karimov said:

    people have different personal opinions. You believe in your heart that DHH is evil, that you have the moral high ground, and that nothing will change your mind. However, not everyone believes that. It is not fair to claim a monopoly and ostracize team members who might disagree with you.

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