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[–] 107 points 4 months ago (34 children)

That almost certainly has nothing to do with storage and instead is about frequency of shooting.

People that have one gun locked in safe that never gets open, aren't shooting it.

Someone doing a weekly range trip is going to bring home a bunch of lead dust regardless of how they store the gun.

We really need to get away from lead in firearms

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  • [–] 27 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

    We also really need to normalize lead management. When I went shooting in scouts as a kid I learned all the responsible gun operation saftey stuff, but never even thought about the lead exposure till I was an adult

    I'd never even heard of de-leading products for getting yourself cleaned up after shooting until deviant ollam on YouTube talked about them in passing in a video

    (great channel by the way, it's hard to find any folks who talk about guns online that a turbo chud)

    Edit: misspelled "deviant" lol

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    Sorry I misspelled deviant lol

    https://youtube.com/@deviantollam He's mostly big in the physical security world and has a lot of crossover with hacker community stuff, but regularly talks firearms. Cool dude, hes on mastodon

    If you want another cool leftwing guntuber tacticool girlfriend was rad, she doesnt do YouTube anymore but still has a whole backlog of videos and is a transfem immigrant who always had a perspective on guns I appreciated

    Deviant ollam also mentions a handful of others in his super old video on preparedness (I believe its this one https://youtu.be/6ihrGNGesfI), which if you see his videos on his friend Kara (transfem hacker friend of his currently in federal prison), if I remember right thats also the video where he gives the back story needed to follow the updates on how she's doing

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Link to the specific video about de-leading?

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Just wanted to add someone elsewhere in the thread mentioned jaredAF having good videos on the subject

    I'm not familiar with the channel but figured it might be worth mentioning in case you're looking for resources and didn't see it mentioned :)

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Sorry, I think he just mentioned he thought it was cool seeing some de-leading products at Shot Show

    I don't remember the video (it probably would have been one of his "best and worst of shot show" videos) and it wasn't really a guide or anything, so much as just him talking about his experience at the convention and more de-leading products getting visibility being something he thought was positive

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  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago (20 children)

    Copper for slugs, while more expensive has a risk level close to 0 in comparison to lead. It also has excellent ballistic properties and will expand properly with designs like hollow points

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  • [–] 15 points 4 months ago (13 children)

    Tungsten, too.

    The problem is really the cost. To go to the range and spend $30 would instead cost $150. I think the average person would buy the lead.

    I'll ask a friend of mine who worked at a range recently to see what people are spending.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    Per friend: -$35 a person $12 for the second and ammo varies wildly. They start about $20/$30 a box for 9mm 50 rounds, but most people use 1/2 boxes ler trip"

    Also, per them, tungsten is a no-no due to its armor-piercing abilities.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago* (4 children)

    $20 for 50 rounds of 9mm is exceptionally high. 20-25 cents per round for target ammo is closer to reality. https://ammoseek.com/ammo/9mm-luger

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    It's probably the cost buying from the range. Might also be regional. I'm going to keep replying to myself.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    It is, the ranges mark up the ammo (what business doesn't) as they sell small quantities to a captive audience who will pay. Ammoseek represents the other end of the spectrum, ppl buying wholesale in larger quantities. Not represented are the hand loaders, typically sports-oriented going through a thousand a week in practice buying components at cost.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Is tungsten a no-no to carry around loaded, or is it simply unavailable?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

    I'm not a gun guy, but I've never heard of tungsten being used in bullets, and AFAIK it would severly damage the barrel, right?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)

    I don't know about tungsten bullets, but I have heard of tungsten shot.

    You could probably jacket a tungsten bullet in a softer metal like copper to mitigate the damage to the barrel, but I feel like that's also gonna run up against armor piercing regulations

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    I think, from a report I did in middle school, that you have just described how armor piercing bullets function.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Yeah, that's basically the gist of it, jacket a hard, dense penetrator in a softer metal so it doesn't damage the barrel

    But there's some edge cases like with m855 "green tip" 5.56 ammo which has a steel core inside a lead bullet and copper jacket, but generally isn't considered "armor piercing" even though it does penetrate armor slightly better than most other standard 5.56 rounds

    So I'm gonna hedge me bets and say there may be a case where a tungsten bullet may not be considered armor piercing but I don't know the specifics of where that line would be drawn.

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago

    It's actually not the projectile that causes most of the lead exposure for shooters. It's the cartridge primers, they use lead styphnate for their explosive. Copper bullets are mainly to not spread lead through the environment where it can harm wildlife, and to avoid the risk of consuming lead in shot animals.

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Aren't expanding bullets horrible and should be illegal?

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    No. They keep the projectile from over-penetrating the intended target.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Isn't it better to have penetration without a bunch of shards?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    Most traditional hollowpoints aren't designed to break apart into shrapnel. They're designed to expand in a controlled manner. The FBI protocol is that it should expand after passing through four layers of cloth (denim, fleece, cotton, and something else), then penetrate between 12 and 18 inches through standardized ballistics gel.

    A non expanding bullet might get double that much penetration if it doesn't start tumbling. Projectiles designed for large, dangerous game are designed for no expansion and maximum penetration. It all depends on what the goal is.

    There's a lot of youtube where people have put that kind of stuff to the test if you want to dig. There are a few results out there that are non-intuitive. For example, a regular 38 special hollow point out of a modern revolver often doesn't get enough velocity to expand, so the cavity will fill up with cloth and over penetrate the gel even though it's substantially less powerful than a 9mm.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Why not just get rid of firearms completely?

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    Yeah, this is America (Woo, ayy)

    Guns in my area (Word, my area)

    I got the strap (Ayy, ayy)

    I gotta carry 'em

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOjWnS4cMY

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I’m surprised that song didn’t anger gun owners.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    In a country with more guns than people, that's like saying you're surprised people with a driver's license don't all drive F350 super duty's...

    Even worse, because when push comes to literal shove, the people with the most guns make the decisions. January 6th should have proved that if nothing else did, if they had showed up with guns they'd have accomplished their goals easily.

    Don't take it for granted that America will never need another revolution, or that a couple thousand armed people can't accomplish anything.

    Fuck man, now more than ever it's the responsibility of every good American to own and be proficient with a rifle.

    Take a fucking look around, you think trump is handing the White House to anyone in 2.5 years?

    Buy a fucking rifle while you can if you haven't already, or at least stop shit talking people who take logical precautions with our current reality.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    Well one would take a single federal law to change. Simple majority and signed by the president. The other requires 2/3rds of congress to agree or 2/3rds of states to agree. Nearly impossible

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  • [+] 0 points 4 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    While I agree with you to an extent, I bet many people who use gun safes properly are also mindful of cleaning themselves and their clothing after shooting.

    ...

    Yeah, no one ever said they didn't. Or that any group was the same.

    My point was that storage method didn't matter.

    Any correlation is likely because someone who buys a gun and only plans to touch it "when they need it" are going to likely keep it in a safe.

    Regardless of how well you think you're cleaning yourself tho, you're being lead home from shooting. It takes a lot to actually mitigate it, and even if you think you are, you're not.

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    [–] 18 points 4 months ago

    I really thought this was an onion headline or something. Safe gun storage leads to less lead in children... haha... but no, for real for real.

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  • [–] 26 points 4 months ago* (21 children)

    Or, cognitive impairment from lead poisoning leads to unsafe gun storage.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    They were measuring lead in infants under 36 months old.

    Are you suggesting toddlers are losing their ability to safely store firearms or did you just not read the article?

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  • [–] 9 points 4 months ago* (2 children)

    I mean, have you ever seen a baby properly store a firearm? Exactly.

    E: ban all babies! Ban all babies!

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (6 children)

    They make lead free bullets these days, I highly recommend those if you can afford the slightly higher price.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    What do the lead free bullets do to the bore? Lead is one of the more lubricious metals available.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    I'm tired and missed the word "lead", so I thought you were recommending free bullets and your comment about higher price made me wonder if Americans are getting paid to get bullets otherwise.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    The bullets are lead-free, but usually the primers still contain lead which is a big, maybe the biggest, part of lead exposure with firearms, and it can be pretty hard to find ammo with lead-free primers, it also can get pricey, and by a lot of accounts they're less reliable than lead-based primers, so that's something to be taken into account.

    Lead exposure from the ammo itself is usually pretty minimal, a lot of bullets are jacketed in copper so under normal handling you're not really going to come in contact with much if any lead. There will probably be some fouling in the barrel, but that's mostly contained in the barrel and unless you're cleaning your gun on the same towel you use to wash your face thats pretty easily contained with some basic precautions like wearing gloves and such (not that all, honestly probably not most gun owners take those precautions seriously)

    But when the primer detonates it's putting out a lot of aerosolized lead compounds that kind of get all over the place because it's basically getting sprayed around you- on your hands, on your clothes, the outside of your gun, your range bag, you're inhaling it, etc.

    So keeping your gun and shooting gear in a safe or something helps to keep that contained so it's not getting transferred from your gun and range bag to wherever you set it down.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Yeah, my first thought was also that they had the causal relationship backwards.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

    in children

    No there are multiple parties at play. The infants being exposed to lead are not the ones failing to store the guns correctly.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    They researchers hypothesize that the children's blood lead content is related to lead particles carried into the home on a recently fired gun and the parent's clothing. That sounds weak as hell to me. It's much more likely that the children and parents are both exposed when the gun is fired. More likely, in my opinion, the whole family was exposed by going to Nascar races, that until recently still used leaded gasoline, or some other environmental exposure. I would imagine that long term lead exposure could readily be associated with unsafe gun storage.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago*

    They were measuring the lead on the household floors and infant babies' blood. I'm guessing the mothers/infants were not at the range.

    The research team analyzed data from the longitudinal HOME Study, which was developed to assess the effects of environmental toxicant exposures on various health outcomes. The study, based in Cincinnati, Ohio, enrolled over 400 pregnant women from 2003 to 2006 and is following them and their babies over time.

    In the HOME Study, blood lead levels were measured at ages 12, 24 and 36 months and floor dust lead levels from first measurement, at 12 months and at 24 months. Caregivers reported firearm ownership, number of firearms and storage practices during pregnancy.

    The team’s analysis found that in homes where firearms were not stored or locked, there was 29% to 84% higher dust lead from first measurement through when the child was 24 months of age, and children had approximately 20% higher blood lead levels at ages 12 to 36 months.

    Same research team already found that gun ownership correlates to higher household levels in 44 states.

    https://www.brown.edu/news/2024-03-01/firearms-lead

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  • [–] 31 points 4 months ago

    Proper gun regulations will reduce lead in children, as well.

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  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    Americans having lead poisoning from too many guns checks right the fuck out

    edit: People upvoting comments that clearly didn't read the article also checks the fuck out

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    But what if the government wants stupid children? I mean, the current government would not stand a chance if the population was not that stupid on average.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Hoover’s research has focused on how firearm-related lead can contribute to increased blood lead levels in children in the United States. Firearms use lead-based ammunition and primers, he explained, so discharging a firearm releases lead particles that can be inhaled or inadvertently transported into the home on contaminated clothing or gear.

    If this also.works for adults,not would explain a lot of the insanely behaviors of gun nut magas

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    lead poisonining is the least of your worries when it can just kill you right away from a high velocity.

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