don't fall prey to ecofascist propaganda

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[–] 24 points 7 months ago (2 children)

immigration hurts the environment

Never heard that one before

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    Never heard that one before

    It's regularly trotted out here in Australia, laughably they say our environmental party, The Greens are really be pro environment because they support immigration.

    I had several arguments in Mastodon during the last federal elections on that very issue.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    It hurts THEIR environment. How can they have their ideal environment of a suburban home in a cul-de-sac if the neighbor isn't white? (And maybe also because they can't afford to buy a house with all the billionaires hoarding everything, but mostly that guy in particular not being white)

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago*

    Shhh don’t pay attention to the multinational corporations behind the curtain 🤫

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I mean, the larger part of mammalian biomass is humans and their livestock...

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    Exactly. We are populated to a point where there is little option but to rely on oil extraction to create enough fertilizer to feed 8 billion people.

    Admitting that we have an issue with overpopulation does not necessarily justify gutting social programs and accelerating the demise of the poor. Rather it should inspire us to consider the best path forward - increased access to birth control and education, improved farming methods, reducing the amount of nature we impinge upon, accepting that perpetual GDP growth is not sustainable and moving towards an economic system that emphasizes quality of life.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, we can decrease the population overall, but that is at odds with the endless geowth needs of Capitalism.

    Fortunately, people are doing that anyway in most countries because cost of living and lack of basic safety nets in society are both ass.

    But Capitalism refuses to adapt, so the assholes running shit are panicking.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Choosing not to reproduce is a long term way to size the means of production. Reducing the size of the available workforce means they have more leverage over capital and can resist exploitation more effectively.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Thank you, humouring Malthusian talking points hurts everyone, not just Malthusians which would be ideal.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Heard the first but not the second, and my major was one where 50% would have agreed with Thanos. Immigration is basically necessary with climate change, since rising sea levels (among other things) displace people. But otherwise I agree, since I graduated with a bunch of ecofacists.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Thing is, immigration needs to be done in a controlled, orderly way. People who come here need to integrate into society. But that's not what is happening, in fact, literally the opposite. Europe does not control whatsoever who comes in and the member countries have no plans how to integrate them and many migrants don't really show the will to integrate, either. This leads to the formation of parallel societies with the same problematic cultures and values from the countries the migrants fled from. We don't need this kind of immigration, that's why a lot of people are against it.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Yes, it’s wild how the immigrants don’t want to integrate into societies that consistently elect politicians who want to eradicate their religion, consistently side with regimes that have bombed their friends and families, and abuse them in the street. The solution is clearly to continue to elect those politicians.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Gunther No.

    Gunther! put than the spear!! No bad Gunther

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    Yes numbers and statistical data is racism /s

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Statistics can in fact be intentionally skewed to favour bigoted viewpoints. Even without changing the observed data, it can often be done just by reframing the conclusions.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    Sounds like a you problem, maybe become an adult an learn to interpret the data for yourself instead of lazily wanting the tv to do it for you like a boomer

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    They’re a small minded case study in Dunning-Kruger leading someone to fall for Malthusian propaganda spread by bigots and fascists.

    Other than that? No idea what their problem is. Maybe not enough fiber in their diet.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Wow you guys sure are cool how is that working out for you in real life lol.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Well if you’d like to know, not too terrible. I have a partner who loves me, a Mom who’s just the best, a community of friends who support me, and I’m intellectually fulfilled. These days I’m pursuing a new career as well as a new series of degrees. Switching from IT to healthcare with a focus on teaching.

    Thanks for asking!

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    I mean, I'm not the one here preaching about how all statistics is always correct, but you do you. Maybe you should also do some research on where those conveniently racist numbers come from, eh?

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  • [+] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)
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    [–] 12 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I don’t understand how, logically, overpopulation is related to immigration. It’s the same number of people, just in different places.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    The only way I can see that making any sense is if it's immigration into a very resource-poor area. Maybe a desert or tundra? I guess Las Vegas comes to mind, it's overpopulated for what is naturally found there. Areas like the Sahara desert especially.

    Other than that kind of very specific circumstance, definitely racist.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Gunther put that down!

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I mean, we are overpopulated, but the solution is just to have fewer kids. Yeah, us older folks will suffer the consequences of less young people to care for us in our old age, but after that's over, things could be pretty nice for the planet.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    I mean, we are overpopulated

    No. The problem ISN'T that there's too many people. The problem is that rich people and rich countries are hogging almost all the resources so there's not enough to go around.

    You're doing exactly what the meme is warning against.

    the solution is just to have fewer kids

    While that's probably a good idea for most on the micro (specific family) scale, on a macro (country, continent, planet) scale, it does almost nothing compared to better resource distribution.

    us older folks will suffer the consequences of less young people to care for us in our old age

    That's ALSO more of a distribution problem: with better compensation and working conditions, more people of all ages who are themselves healthy enough to do the job would care for seniors professionally, and with better social service budgets, more seniors would be able to afford it.

    Moreover, people in other professions having fewer working hours and better pay per hour would allow them the time and economic breathing room to better care for their family members in their free time, which would mean fewer offspring per family would be needed for it

    but after that's over, things could be pretty nice for the planet.

    No. The resource hogging rich people would still be poisoning everything by perpetuating reliance on fossil fuels and other genocidal economic behaviors.

    Every single problem attributed to overpopulation can be solved by distributing resources away from corporations and billionaires towards things that actually improve the well-being of humans in general AND the planet.

    Pretending otherwise is helping the oppressive elite whether you intend to or not.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I mean, you could probably fit four families in my apartment, but does anyone want to live that way? It's not a question of how many people the planet can hold, it's a question of how many people would be comfortable for it to hold. And that's not even getting into the fact that other creatures have a right to be here also.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    you could probably fit four families in my apartment,

    So you're quite comfortable, right? Just saying how you feel about the poors? jfc.

    that’s not even getting into the fact that other creatures have a right to be here also.

    Yes, veganism makes the planet vastly more sustainable. We're nowhere near the limits...

    Unless you need hamburgers to be comfortable? In that case we should castrate the poor. \s

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    No, I live in a pretty small place. My point is that we could probably find all kinds of ways to cram way more people on the planet. But would we want to? Is that really the world anyone wants to live in?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    The ecology has value insofar it provides humanity with resources to live. When you fall for ecofascism you necessarily exclude someone from humanity. Please don't do it.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm OK with excluding billionaires from humanity. I am not a perfect person.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    I like the fire but I don't think it's a good precedent to exclude bad people from humanity, more accurately from basic human decency. IMO that does NOT mean that the billionaires don't get the wall, they ought to get the wall at a bare minimum as self-defense against their ongoing violence against the working class, but they should only get the wall and nothing worse than what is needed (e.g. torture).

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Watch kingsman (first movie) It's brilliant !

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