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[–] 144 points 7 months ago (2 children)

good!

Germany’s decision to anchor ODF at the heart of its national sovereign stack confirms what we have argued for years: open, vendor-neutral document formats are not a niche concern for some technology specialists and FOSS advocates. They are a fundamental infrastructure for democratic, interoperable and sovereign public administrations.

I'm gonna repeat this, as expressed here, to a few people

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  • [–] 39 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    As a guy who worked with property recods in US fucking yes. Some states gove the records in a closed format invented by one company. So you have to have their software if you want to work in some states.
    Add it to the pile of illegal shit that is legal I guess...

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  • [–] 75 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Hopefully the rest of Europe will follow.

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  • [–] 35 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Despite being so shit in many different respects (a chronic use of external consultants and contractors means the UK seems less likely than other European countries to make progress on a sovereign tech stack), the UK is pretty good with its data. There's a surprisingly amount of data that's released and is in a sensible format.

    During the teachers strikes last year, I ended up using playing around making visualisations using the data about the number of teachers in various parts of the country, and I was pleased to see how much there was there and how clearly it was documented. There are very few things I'm proud of the UK for, so I am glad to have this as one

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The UK seemingly got some cool nerds in the government: the gov.uk sites were regarded as the golden standard of design and accessibility in the 2010s, idk about currently. Commercial designers straight up studied gov.uk's design guidelines to see how a job like that should be done.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, I knew that, it's super cool, and it came to mind as I was writing my earlier comment.

    What's neat about the website stuff is that even if it's not as good now (idk, I haven't looked), that value they created is still there in the older case study — there were so many good resources. I was the disability rep in a few student societies, as well as in a few volunteer orgs after uni, and we referenced the guidelines a few times. Good resources like that are especially useful in those contexts — because they helped turn "that would be nice, but we don't have the resources to implement accessibility in our materials" into "okay, let's put our money where our mouth is and do our best to make something as accessible as we can"

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  • [–] 52 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Wow, some good news on Lemmy? Sign me up!

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  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago

    Hell yes. I wonder how many man-hours of strategy meetings MS had on their calendars to fend that decision off.

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  • [–] 29 points 7 months ago

    It's so good to see initiatives like these! Hope it spreads across Europe and the World.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Isn't odf the one used by libre office?

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    More than that, it's standardization made MS panic and pseudo-standardize their OOXML (.docx & co.) a year later, since some govt wanted to switch to ODF back in 2007, instead of relying on some proprietary format. The pseudo, because most of the format is proprietary extensions (and only the strict variant is standard-conformant, which MS doesn't set as default), which made the standardization a ...unusual process.

    Btw, usually, there's only one standard format for a specific usecase.

    Edit: typo

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Gotta love Germany.

    Fun fact: the German equivalent of the BBC, DW, will teach you German if you want to learn it, for free. A but niche but a nice thing to do!

    https://www.dw.com/

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago*

    DW isn't the equivalent of the BBC. It's more of a equivalent to e.g. Radio Free Europe. DW is entirely funded by the German government, in contrast to the BBC or ARD/ZDF which are independently funded. I'm not saying DW is bad, but it isn't the equivalent of the BBC.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Their contract with Microslop must be up for renegotiation.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    I remember reading this headline in 2004

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  • 35 comments in c/opensource@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 197 points 7 months ago (23 children)

    This is something very important: Don't focus on aplications (FOSS or not) but on open data formats and proper import/export mechanisms so you can switch applications easily.

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  • [–] 37 points 7 months ago (20 children)

    That's why I use Obsidian! It's not open source, but all my notes are just... pre-emptively saved as markdown files on disk. If they fuck me over I can just leave and open it in literally any markdown editor 😭

    If they used a proprietary format, I probably just wouldn't have used them in the first place and would have had to use a shittier alternative.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Same! Them using markdown means I've been able to make an Obsidian-like app for Wear OS, with a phone app to sync your vault to the watch. Wouldn't have been possible if they weren't using markdown. Hoping to launch it on the Google Play store in a month or so :)

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I love obsidian, I wanted to send a donation, but they only sell merch with expensive shipping :<

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Which markdown format?

    GitHub or Stack Exchange or Reddit?

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    A combination of CommonMark and GitHub Flavored Markdown so it's compatible with most markdown formatting people are used to. Also supports LaTeX and HTML. (and of course any custom syntax modifications you make with custom CSS or plugins)

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    You could, I don't know, use an open source note taking app? I mean, it's not like obsidian has some unique and unmatched capabilities ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    What is a plaintext (non-database) md editor that had wikilinks, LaTeX, back links, tags, PDF export, properties and dataviews, and a plugin community? Plus it needs an android app and desktop app that can be synced (even just via syncthing) seamlessly.

    I am always open for switching!

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    If you drop the plaintext requirement (which IMO is anachronistic, if not for the necessity to fend against a potentially turning hostile developer in a close-source set-up), you may find https://triliumnotes.org/ liberating.

    If you must stick to the "notes as plain text files" paradigm, siyuan is better than obsidian in about every aspect, and logseq in other, more niche ones. Trilium is better than them all (IMHO), being the only one that does "note as data" correctly and efficiently (you don't have the same data model divide like seen in notion between notes and databases).

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    https://joplinapp.org/

    Seems interesting

    Im a VSCodium kind of guy myself

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Vscodium for notes, interesting.

    I looked into joplin before obsidian actually, but it is much more of a standard note taker, not good for zettelkasten sort of notes (link and tag focused)

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Im.very into "AsCode" and pretty comfortable with vi bindings. So the two extremes where i document (random notes with no structure needed and formally verified documentation ) it works for me.

    I can preview the markdown, use vale rules to enforce style and vocab, do mermaid.js diagrams, link my UML to stuff, etc.

    Then check into git to do version control or just to save it off local.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (3 children)

    The silence is deafening, because there isn’t a FOSS program that comes close to Obsidian’s functionality. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen someone drop the “lul just use FOSS instead” line to garner upvotes, when literally no FOSS alternative exists. There are some FOSS programs that come close in some regards, but none of them do everything Obsidian does and support multiple platforms.

    Lemmy has an obsession with FOSS (for good reason) but that means many users basically try to act like FOSS vegans. They’d use six different (and largely incompatible) FOSS programs just to scratch the surface of what a closed-source program can do. And their hackles start to raise if you ever point out that there aren’t FOSS alternatives for everything.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    The silence of two hours ago lol

    Chill brother. Like i get it, and FOSS advocates should lead with meaningful alternitives first imho, but there definitly seems to be some https://joplinapp.org/

    I personally prefer vscodium and nvim myself for notes but that isnt a one for one comparison to obsidian (in either direction) imho

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    ok, but there's not much substance to your comment besides unsubstantiated "zealotry" towards obsidian and some general hot takes against lemmy and the FOSS community through which it emerged.

    Maybe you could start listing out a few aspects and features of obsidian that you deem so important and unique, and I'm sure that you may discover a few very compelling alternatives.

    As far as I'm concerned, I'm all set with https://triliumnotes.org/ . It's not just a more versatile and capable note taking app, it's also one that I can deploy simultaneously "local first" and "as a web service", so my notes are reachable everywhere (even where I'm not allowed to install the heavy client).

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    [–] 183 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    This is not a recommendation or a preference, it is a mandate,

    ODF’s mandate is the document-layer expression of that principle, as you cannot claim digital sovereignty while allowing your documents to be locked in proprietary formats controlled by a single vendor.

    incredibly based

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago
    [–] 22 points 7 months ago

    At least something good amid all the bad news regarding the future of software systems

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  • [–] 41 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    I think this is not (entirely) true. Or at least I have some questions:

    • Is this an enacted law that I missed? Because it looks like it is a work in progress.
    • "All levels of government" Really? We have federalism. I am not sure, if that can be mandated by the governments.

    BTW: https://deutschland-stack.gov.de/

    I have searched a bit further: For federal and state governments, ODF is binding through IT Planning Council resolutions and federal guidelines, but there is no formal law yet mandating its use. Also, this is not binding for local authorities, but virtual it is.

    https://www.it-planungsrat.de/beschluss/beschluss-2025-06

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  • [–] 41 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    It's a typo, they wanted to make support of the IDF mandatory

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago
    [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Bravo. Can't believe it has taken this long for a gov't to realize storing everything in a poorly obfuscated format makes no sense.

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  • 20 comments in c/buyeuropean@feddit.uk view that post
    [–] 23 points 7 months ago

    I understand why the world is the way it is, but still it should have been obvious all along that it is not ideal for the government to data in a file format owned by a company. Even worse, a foreign company.

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago

    Great news!

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    Most—certainly not all, but most—documents that are written in Microsoft Word, or in LibreOffice Writer, would be better off as either markdown plain text files, or as LaTeX.

    CMV.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    *with accessibility tags applied.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    I'm afraid I'm not sure what you mean here. Both markdown and LaTeX are plain text. They're easily read by a screen reader. Though unless the screen reader is specially-designed for LaTeX support, it may be difficult to comprehend. That's on the screen reader though, not the document format.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    I assume they mean stuff like image descriptions that you can add in Microslop Word (don't know about LibreOffice). It's quite a neat feature that wouldn't work with markdown (might work with LaTeX), because these image descriptions are not visible to someone reading a document.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Image descriptions are a thing in markdown. Images are inserted into markdown documents with this syntax:

    ![alt text](url)
    
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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Correct, accessibility also differentiates between titles and content, to better assist readers who use a screen reader.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I replied to the other user showing how markdown image descriptions work. Titles are added with hashes.

    # title
    ## subtitle
    
    Text
    
    ### sub-sub title
    
    Etc.
    
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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Screen reader should pick that up.

    It's a bit trickier in LaTeX (depending on layout), given they convert to an untagged pdf by default using pdftex. For defaults such as section/subsection etc I think some auto-tagging has been added, but my memory is not great.

    Issues crop up when you need to hack something (e.g. indenting parts of a proof using the quote environment to aid readability, creating more complex tables, or just using coloured text to indicate element relations), and here manual tagging is a must!

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Nice! A huge blow to those still trying to push Microsoft

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    When are we going to have the equivalent for PDF documents, with the ability to comment, fill and sign, as in AdobeAR?

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  • 3 comments in c/libreoffice@discuss.tchncs.de view that post
    [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    The framework adopts a “Made in EU first” principle, requires open interfaces and local data storage, mandate open source development where proprietary ownership would otherwise apply, and explicitly aims to reduce vendor lock-in effects.

    This is such a wet dream 🥹

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago
    [–] 1 point 4 months ago