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[–] 5 points 8 months ago

https://lemmy.world/post/40834399

Quick post about AI-free FireFox Based Browsers (Keep your Addons and avoid the Bloat)

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  • 54 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (10 children)

    Oh for fucks sake, you don't even have to turn it off, just don't use the AI functions if you don't want to. Like translate or Image Caption for the blind.
    The AI functions don't do shit unless you use them.
    They don't slow your browser down, and they don't eat resources as is so often claimed.
    Stop the fucking Mozilla hate.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    Mozilla only has finite time, money, and resources, so the impact of these features is a detriment to even the people who don't use them. Those resources could have been better budgeted.

    For example, "image caption for the blind" sounds great, but do you know how worthless it actually is? For starters, you can't use it on any webpage...

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Well said. Everyone is crying about Mozilla dipping their toes in AI, while at the same time, ignoring Windows telemetry, Google's push for manifest v3 with chrome and so much more.

    It's so stupid

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago

    while at the same time, ignoring Windows telemetry,

    You're posting this statement on Lemmy? There is a dispropotionatly high population of Linux and OSX users here. Most of those here ignoring Windows telemetry aren't running Windows.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (4 children)

    Yes and no, this is not about others being worse, it's about being a total non issue in Firefox.
    First is that if you don't use them, the Firefox AI features do NOTHING. And on top of that you can disable them completely.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I understand your guys thing in general but really such a big thing should be opt in. I mean heck I would prefer to not even download the components but I get that is not feasible. Still it would be super simple to have it off by default and have a popup asking if the person wanted ai features enabled with an at least on option being no. never.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    Most ordinary users never make a setting change,having it off by default, would make it so those users will never be aware the features are there, and having translation available on the address bar is a major feature.
    Since they do no harm, I can honestly not see a reason why it should be opt in?
    The people that want to turn it off are just contrarian, and possibly oppose AI as some sort of principle, disregarding that in this case it actually helps people that want to read articles in other languages, and blind people to have meaningful captions on pictures that aren't properly captioned for the blind.

    You do you, but this is not you doing you, you are being contrary at far greater cost to other people, regarding something that shouldn't even be an inconvenience to you. You just choose to be difficult without having a real reason. Except you hate the word AI.

    What AI feature is it exactly, that you think is detrimental to your normal use of Firefox?

    I mean heck I would prefer to not even download the components

    Why? And how many other features would you prefer not to download? The plugins interface maybe? Video and audio Codecs? Support for PNG? The theming capability? How many plugins do you have? What about AI features is it that is so especially horrible to you?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    well again given the use of popups for other things that are opt in I don't see why it can't be used here. most users can say yes to a popup and no to one if the popup gives that option. Again im not wild about the llm code even being in the system as its all just bloat. Off by default just makes it easier while I move away from the software.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    its all just bloat.

    Here you go:
    https://www.brow.sh/

    If you want a lean no bloat Web Browser there are many that fit that label way better than Firefox.
    Firefox was always a full featured browser with more features than most.

    Another nice little browser would be Falkon:
    https://www.falkon.org/

    There are dozens of such browsers, Firefox is great because it's complete, go get your incomplete browser with only aged features elsewhere, that doesn't have the new features Firefox offer.
    Some of us use for instance the page translation quite often. If you are not used to that, you are limiting your browsing to only sources in languages you understand. I understand 5 languages, but not for instance Chinese and French.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    I find it funny. How Firefox users are saying, "Just turn it off, bro." in the comments now. After having Brave users shit for saying the same thing for years. Never change browser war BS..never change.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (36 children)

    Bro, just turn it off if you don't want it.

    Or use Tor Browser or Mullvad Browser if you don't wanna deal with it.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (10 children)

    How about we remove it from the browser, and if you want it you can install it as an addon.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    Submit that pull request, my dude

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Do you have the authority to authorize its approval, or are you just trying to shut people up with a thought-terminating cliché

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (7 children)

    You don't need authority if its your own code, technically. Just commit and build.

    If you're wanting it as the default for everyone who uses that browser, Lemmy is not the place to request it. Hit up Mozilla, ask them to change it, or change it yourself and ask them to review your pull request. They authorize and approve from outside contributors quite often, so don't sell yourself short.

    But also, yes, i love the cliche because people just moan on lemmy about things instead of actively addressing the issue with the appropriate people on the appropriate mediums.

    Airing your grievances out here is fun though. I get it. but asking the people upset about it to do some work is also fun.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Why do you want people to stop discussing this? Are you running community management for Mozilla? If not, why is discussing it not "addressing the issue"? People are engaging in discourse.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Not once did I say I want people to stop discussing this.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    What is the purpose of this message?

    But also, yes, i love the cliche because people just moan on lemmy about things instead of actively addressing the issue with the appropriate people on the appropriate mediums.

    Airing your grievances out here is fun though. I get it. but asking the people upset about it to do some work is also fun.

    Awfully ironic to say this, now that "code is free". What work are we talking about?

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  • [+] 8 points 8 months ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (20 children)

    bro use another thing. don't complain or suggest something should be different! Just abandon toot sweet. Seriously im in process of moving to either waterfox or librefox but the browser is practically an abstracted next level of the os so moving over is just a bit faster than moving my os. At least for my main browser.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (3 children)

    Librewolf keeps crashing my machine whenever I alt tab out of a game to it.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    Might just be a Firefox bug, since it's a very light fork. Try Firefox and see if it does the same thing.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    I switched back to Firefox after the third time it happened. Not a Firefox issue

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 8 months ago

    Well, you could import the same policies into Firefox that LibreWolf uses, or it might be some workaround in your graphics driver that acts on the filename of the Firefox executable.

    Obviously you don't need to test, but just throwing out ideas if you would want to.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (15 children)

    Better yet, just make a pull request. Its open source. Can build your own Firefox.

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  • [–] -3 points 8 months ago (14 children)

    xactly. or why even fork. just start building a new browser writing straight assembly or better yet bro code it with ai.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (13 children)

    The source code is there. Why reinvent the wheel. Its like 2 or 3 commands to build it.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (12 children)

    oh building it straight up removes the ai? do builds ever fail? what are the three commands. I won't need specific libraries or other requirments for my os yeah?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (11 children)

    Ezpz

    • Download source
    • Delete ai commits
    • Install deps per Firefox and OS docs
    • Build per Firefox and OS docs

    Now you won't ever have to worry about it.

    Better yet, install Tor Browser or Mullvad browser and save yourself from typing 3 command lines.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (10 children)

    im already moving to either waterfox or librefox. comes down to if my addons have any issue with either. hoping waterfox as I already sorta have waterfox for a specific setup I don't want to change.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (9 children)

    Ah well I wish you luck with the fingerprint issues with those two browsers. Weird to care about AI being in your browser but not about that, but I guess its better than Chrome.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 8 months ago (7 children)

    What fingerprint issues are you aware of?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (6 children)

    https://github.com/BrowserWorks/waterfox

    Search "fingerprint" on the issues page. Read the "closed" issues as well, because all they did was close the issue and direct them to a discussion page.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Could you link to a real issue so we aren't guessing about what we are looking at?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] [S] 2 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I'm seeing closed bugs from 2021 here, are we supposed to take these seriously?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    Its been a known issue for a while, yes.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (3 children)

    Uh, I'm not trying to be all Hail Corporate or anything, but they didn't have to include the disable AI toggle. It sounds like if you turn it off, you never have to think about AI in Firefox...

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  • [+] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    Opt-in is not just the only respectful choice, it's also the only logical or ethical one. Mozilla instead made the choice that makes the most financial sense, like every other company or nonprofit on the planet. 

    If you have other ideas to fund the project, see if Mozilla will listen to you. We don't have to like it, but at this time Firefox is still the least-bad browser. But people who won't accept anything good they do are actually unhinged...

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago
    1. Keep taking money from Google
    2. Stop giving it to random AI companies with no strings attached
    3. Don't get into a discrimination lawsuit by firing a man with a medical condition, who was leading the only profitable department
    4. Start taking donations for Firefox development
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  • 16 comments in c/linux@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 12 points 8 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    @yoasif@fedia.io, you spammed this story everywhere.

    Not cool, man.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    It raises awareness of an important issue. Not everyone is suscribed everywhere, some communities can be blocked or defederated, etc.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    It was posted in like 5 different communities, some not even close to related (for example 3 Linux communities), some posted twice (eg. the Linux previously mentioned communities). They could have just crossposted it using the feature. Either way it is still a lot of spam. It isnt even that important of news because anyone who cares about this (anti or pro LLM) has already made up their mind and would already have formed an opinion on this feature without a random article.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    I swear people will never be happy no matter what.

    No AI features? Get with the times man.

    AI features? High treason.

    Opt-out? Not good enough.

    Opt-in? Nobody will use it.

    Can't please everyone I guess.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago

    If most people don't want it enough to opt in, then it belongs in an extension, not the base browser. Then it's still there for the ones who actually do want it, but won't bother anyone else.

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    [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    "Whoopsies! Sorry folks, turns out the opt-out of our baked in AI dung didn't quite funciton poperly, and you've been feeding literally everything you've done over the past months to BigTech & your favorite government. Our bad."

    Not if, but how soon. Read: MS Copilot & emails

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  • 10 comments in c/foss@beehaw.org view that post
    [–] 22 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I disagree. Being able to choose which llm features I want is a win, and being able to use a local llm to translate language is better than sending data to Google to do that.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    You are aware translation services are available that are neither a local LLM nor Google-owned, yes? We had machine translation before ChatGPT existed, and I don't think that tech evaporated in a sudden fire just because a more harmful option appeared.

    The appropriate option for Mozilla would've been to not include AI at all. If they really, really couldn't have swung that (they could've), then the second best option would be having all AI features set to off-by-default. Instead, we've got on-by-default. That is unambiguously a terrible idea.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Pre-LLM translation services also generally used AI, just via more traditional machine learning. The only difference is introducing a locally run LLM.

    If it runs locally and is openly available, then it doesn't make much difference to me if it's a traditional model or a LLM.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    Considering the negative impacts LLMs have on so many facets of life today, that's kinda the problem. Running it locally only solves some of those.

    Fundamentally though, I just don't want the tech involved in my life at all anymore. I don't care if it has a niche use here or not. It can just fuck off.

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  • [–] -5 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Vivaldi for the win?

    No AI crap at all

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  • [–] [S] 15 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Closed source Chromium sounds like fun.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago*

    No AI is a nice feature; Chromium is not. For those who feel like I do, LibreWolf is a version of Firefox that appears to strip most if not all AI, and being a Firefox fork means that it's also not Chromium. It also uses more privacy-conscious settings by default.

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  • 5 comments in c/firefox@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 12 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I would note that it appears that the poster created this account immediately prior to posting, and then immediately started spamming this post to many different communities, which isn't something that I'm super enthusiastic about.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    It's annoying to have to create a new account since federation from mbin to Lemmy doesn't seem to work across many instances. That and adding a thumbnail to many Lemmy communities simply strips the shared link.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago
    1 comment in c/privacy@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    It is how it should be. Where is the problem now? Accountability sink?? Are you that desperate??

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