Cast it into the fire (media.fedia.io)
submitted 9 months ago by to c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world
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[–] 128 points 9 months ago

There's more parallels when you consider Tolkien was writing a critique of industrialization. Evil wasn't just represented by the One Ring, but also mining too greedily and too deep, cutting down all the trees, poisoning all the water, etc etc.

There's smoke rising from Isengard these days because they fired the coal plants back up.

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  • [–] 67 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Tech bros understand Tolkien as well as they understand cyberpunk and star trek

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  • [–] 98 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Flawed rhetoric. Tech bros read Lord of the Rings and think "Sure, those guys got corrupted by the ring, but I could handle it."

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago

    Which is the problem with them. They think themselves better and idolize the heroes but don’t look at the why they are heroes. Gandalf could have carried the ring but refused because he knew what corruption would bring. Aragorn is the typical masculine hero stereotype in fighting a war and getting the girl in the end. But even he refused because it wasn’t right for him to carry and all of his efforts were to be a distraction at best.

    It was only the continued effort of the smallest people in middle earth that won the day.

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  • [–] 41 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Along a similar line, guy makes a global surveillance company and calls it Palantir, apparently oblivious to how much of a comic book villain he looks like. Thiel looks at Sauron like "that's so meee".

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Palantir. The network of seeing stones infamously compromised by just one bad actor. Drove a man completely mad with depression and doomsaying.

    Yes, let's name our security surveillance company after it.

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  • [–] 25 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    It's important to know, I feel like, that the Curtis Yarvin acolytes like Peter Thiel know about Tolkien lore and think he simply took the wrong perspectivein writing his tales. They actually think Sauron was a hero and represented the right side of history. They are that fucked up, morally and ethically.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Morgoth is a bitch, we are getting those simarills back one way or another.

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  • [–] 28 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    Tolkien predicted the failure of marketed AI? I'm not surprised, it's a product of human industry and progress, something he was critical about.

    I say marketed AI as it's not really AGI, even though it's sold that way. The good/bad news is that actual progress in AGI will have worse results, and current AI is just demonstrating the issues that will crop up without the faster pace and worse destruction AGI could possibly bring. (See the AI alignment problem for details)

    But hey... we learn lessons from history, right?

    Right??

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I say marketed AI as it’s not really AGI

    "it" - being machine learning - is not even AI. Only dumbfucks believe that garbage marketing BS.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    It objectively is, same as OCR and fuzzy logic.

    It's just that when people hear "artificial intelligence", they think of Lt. Cmdr. Data and not the actual field of research that machine learning is a legitimate part of.

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  • The problem is that the term being used is alike to saying "bread" when referring to pancakes. If this branch of IT was run by sane people, I might not even take such issue with the label. But there's nothing wrong with labeling it machine learning, and all the credible applications do just that, be it for medical analysis or for other targeted applications. The only morons insisting to call machine learning "AI" are the LLM fuckers. And the only thing that is "AI" about LLMs are the input and output filters, which have are coded with actual, deterministic rules (or so I suspect). LLM companies are snake oil vendors, and the users are all helping them ruin the planet, politically and environmentally. And the users need to understand that, or they'll contribute a big part to running us right into the ground. So when someone says "AI", and means machine learning systems, they need to understand there is absolutely nothing "intelligent" about them. Because people are gullible and if the output sounds impressive enough, they - and you can observe that every minute in the real world - they actually believe the software has an understanding of what it is saying. It doesn't. You know that, I know that, but most of the dumb users using LLMs do not. And they need to be reminded every minute until they stop fucking around with it.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    "[tech bros] don't have evil in [their] heart" [citation needed]

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Be more like Tom Bombadil America.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    They’re building Mordor in Gaza

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    Mordor is New Jersey. Gaza idk, gates of cirith ungol maybe? No more like Sauramen's Isengaard.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I am just spitballing here, but Mordor is like the industrial engine of the empire, not the wasteland of their warring. It's where the industry of the dark lord, such as it is, spews toxic ash clouds over the land and blots out the sun that never shines bright overhead to the point the orcs find it rather seasonable (orcs being perhaps a cross between men and elves captured and tormented through generations by Morgoth, Sauron's former boss, the Eldar that went bad, (the other Eldar finally came to Middle Earth and killed/banished Morgoth, but not before the elves warred against him in vain for generations after he stole their prize simaril jewels and murdered some in a betrayal and ran to his middle earth kingdom from valinor.)

    So mordor has toxic air, just like New Jersey, in fact endocrinologists have long decreed that New Jersey causes cancer. Their government is corrupt and in league with those polluters in industry that dump their waste under dishonest arguments and pay the politicians to believe it. The D or R next to their names is inconsequential in this regard, they are corrupted by the employers, and are of the party that can win. You don't let someone poison your family if they have one letter next to their name rather than another do you? You shouldn't.

    New Jersey is the only state I've been to where you have to pay to leave, as it's all private highways, best money you can spend.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago*

    Yes, but the eye of Sauron is in Mordor and the plan for Gaza is to build a city run by and ruled by technocrats like Peter Thiel and Larry Ellison who are heading the global mass surveillance systems(eye of Sauron ) This of course will be built on over the blood of the innocent women and children they just slaughtered in a genocide and the project will be policed by the Israeli (orcs) who gleefully engaged in the slaughter of an entire people. I haven’t read the books since I was a teenager but my broad recollection brings me to this conclusion because Mordor is the headquarters of evil and that’s Israel

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The funniest thing is a security company called "Palantir". If they had actually read the books they'd know how ironic that name is... Or ironically on point.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Irony and satire both require critical thinking beyond the scope of what bigots are capable of because it requires them empathy enough to understand the author's POV; namely that the author is not being literal with their words.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)
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    [–] 10 points 9 months ago (18 children)

    What about the AI that I run on my local GPU that is using a model trained on open source and public works?

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    It's cool as hell to train models don't get me wrong but if you use them as assistants you will still slowly stop thinking no?

    So NazgΓ»l.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    This is very cool. Any advice a simple software engineer (me) could follow to practice the same?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (7 children)

    That is slightly less unethical than Claude or whatever, but it is still unethical.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (6 children)

    Can you elaborate on why this is unethical?

    I use 0.2kWh of electricity to spend a day coding with this model:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apertus_(LLM)

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (5 children)

    It is still trained on open source code on GitHub. These code communities seemingly have no way to opt out of their free (libre) contributions being used as training data, nor does the resulting code generation contribute anything back to those communities. It is a form of license stripping. That's just one issue.

    Just because your inference running locally doesn't use much electricity doesn't mean you've sidestepped all of the other ethical issues surrounding LLMs.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

    It is not trained on open source code on Github.

    But I can use it to analyze a datasheet and generate a library for an obscure module that I can then upload to Github and contribute to the community.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    Apertus is most certainly trained on source code hosted on GitHub. It is laid out here in their technical report:

    https://github.com/swiss-ai/apertus-tech-report

    It uses a large dataset called TheStack, among others.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (2 children)

    StarCoderData.23 A large-scale code dataset derived from the permissively licensed GitHub collection The Stack (v1.2). (Kocetkov et al., 2022), which applies deduplication and filtering of opted-out files. In addition to source code, the dataset includes supplementary resources such as GitHub Issues and Jupyter Notebooks (Li et al., 2023).

    That's not random Github accounts or "delicensing" anything. People had to opt IN to be part of "The Stack". Apertus isn't training itself from community code.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    I'm tired of arguing with you about this, and you're still wrong. It was opt-out, not opt-in, based initially on a GitHub crawl of 137M repos and 52B files before filtering & dedup.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    But again, you'd have to set your project to public and your license to "anyone can take my code and do whatever they want with it" before it'd be even added to that list. That's opt-in, not opt-out. I don't see the ethical dilemma here. I'm pretty sure I've found ethical AI, that produces good value for me and society, and I'm going to keep telling people about it and how to use it.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    your local model wouldn't exist without sauron (openai)

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    People were making LLMs before openai/chatgpt tbf.

    It's the "destroy the environment and economy in an attempt to make something that sucks just enough to justify not paying people fairly so you can advertise to rich assholes gambling their generational wealth" that OpenAI invented for the LLMs.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Analogies like this work because they invite reflection rather than certainty. Tools themselves are neutral β€” it’s how people choose to use them, and the values they bring with them, that really shape the outcome.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Sound familiar?

    HBO's Game of Thrones?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    Showed up here a month later. The link is dead. Can anybody find this again? I already looked on the web archive. It's not there.

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  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    I have never heard of Tech Bros liking lord of the rings? Unless OP in the meme is generalizing about nerds in general which is weird cause there are lots of different kind of nerds like Star Wars nerds, Harry Potter nerds, etc.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Have you heard of companies like Palantir and Anduril?

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Those are not tech bros but tech corporates. Big difference. And I dont consider them true LOTR fans. I think they are just trying to use the names for clickbait and to be relevant.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    You don't consider who true LOTR fans? You just said these don't count because they are companies.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (1 child)

    I was talking about the companies Palantir and Anduril. Whoever chose those names are not true Lord of the Rings fans because even though they used names from Lord of the Rings they should know that Tolkien would never have approved of it. Thus, they are not Lord of the Rings fans but rather are just using the names for clickbait purposes. To me personally a tech bro indicates a more casual, nonprofessional - someone who is interested in tech as a hobby. They might do bit coin mining or some casual stock investment but they are not big corporate overlords like those who run Palantir and Anduril. Though of course I could be generalizing too.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Interesting, to me a tech bro means someone who isn't really interested in tech other than as a vehicle to make money. The people going fad after fad through blockchain, metaverse, NFTs, AI, all as an investment opportunity without actually having any real technical knowledge about any of it. The people who aren't geeks but are faking it as a front to convince investors and consumers that they invented something of value. A fake interest in LOTR fits my view of tech bros exactly.

    The people happy to build the Torment Nexus and name it after a LOTR artifact as if it wasn't an affront to LOTR.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago

    AI came from evil people???

    Do you even know the history of AI science??? Certainly not.

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