Privacy for me has been incredibly rewarding, but when talking to people who haven't been introduced to privacy, there are occasionally some moments that make it exhausting. One conversation in particular is one that I've had to go through dozens of times, and it always goes along these lines:

  • Alice: Why is your phone in airplane mode? / What's your phone number?
  • Bob: I don't have a carrier.
  • Alice: But you have a phone.
  • Bob: Yes.
  • Alice: How do you not have a carrier?
  • Bob: Phones can come without a carrier.
  • Alice: What do you use it for?
  • Bob: Everything you use yours for.
  • Alice: How do you talk to people?
  • Bob: Messaging apps over Wi-Fi.
  • Alice: What if you don't have Wi-Fi?
  • Bob: Public Wi-Fi is everywhere. If I don't have Wi-Fi, I likely don't need to get in touch.
  • Alice: What about emergencies?
  • Bob: I can still contact emergency services.

Each time it happens, it has a unique flavor. One person accused me of lying and then fraud. I know people are just curious and don't mean to be rude, but it makes me die a little inside every time someone asks. I've begun trying to sidestep the conversation entirely:

  • Alice: Why is your phone in airplane mode?
  • Bob: To save battery.

or:

  • Alice: What's your phone number?
  • Bob: You can contact me with an app called Signal.

People seem to think that a phone automatically comes with a carrier and that it'll stop working if you don't have one. In reality, I'm saving hundreds of dollars per year while avoiding spam, fraud, breaches, surveillance, and being chronically online. People have a hard time coping with those who do things a little differently.

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[+] 75 points 9 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    If you are an old programmer/geek young people will dismiss you even though they don't even know what a folder is. They think they are IT experts because they can apply the latest instagram filters to their photos.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    Jup. I made that conclusion too.

    However one time two friends asked me about secure messengers and I reluctantly gave up that I used Signal. Since then everyone in my closer friend circle suddenly had Signal.

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  • [–] 31 points 9 months ago (18 children)

    Do you use your phone for navigation when driving? Any good app recommendations for navigating without cellular data?

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  • [–] [S] 55 points 9 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    Ultimate Lemming:

    1. Cycles only, detects cars
    2. Uses CoMaps
    3. Uses Archlinux?

    Im just jokin with ya 😉

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    2 and 3 check out with me, but 1st point is public transport only. Preferably trains + trams.
    Although buses have the advantage that I can sit in the front where I can see the road, and they also tend to be less illuminated so I can see outside at night.
    I wish there were dark carriages. Coach buses will have a few blue LEDs near the floor, but a train has to come with full sun worth of light.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    My city has no public transport and if you tried to bike from one end to the other youd be killed crossing a 6 lane interstate lol. Not to mention it would take you 10 hours.

    Which sucks but I would never use public transport even if we had it. But it does suck for those who cant afford cars.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    but I would never use public transport even if we had it.

    Why is that?

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Its not for me, and im in a place out of town. Public transport wouldnt work here.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Public transport pretty much always works everywhere that isn't a country town with like 5 people living there, and at that point you could just walk or ride around.

    If there is low demand you can start with a small community bus, then increase the amount of buses and lines. Increase the size of the bus. Then maybe build a tram line etc...

    I'm not saying your govenment will do this but it is almost always possible and faster, safer and more comfortable. Unless you really enjoy driving or prefer the privacy that it offers (debatable but still somewhat valid) in which case public transport and other viable alternatives to driving is still the only real way to reduce traffic for drivers.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Ive never found public transport to be good in American cities. Its always loud, smells, and is dangerous. Im sure its better elsewhere.

    I do love driving, and I hate large vehicles on the road. But no one around here is ever going to use public transport. (Town of about 300k.).

    There are busses, only the homeless and drug addicts use them.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    Last time I checked, you can use GPS without carrier. GPS, and GNSS in general, is separate set of satellites. With cellular It’s just more precise since initial triangulation facilitated by cell towers. I recently was mid 5 hours flight and was able to see my location in google maps despite being in flight mode

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Organic maps found on F Droid, download the state or area you want so is available offline. Won't do traffic obviously, but gets you a to be.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    I think CoMaps is the better choice.

    CoMaps was founded in 2025 by former Organic Maps contributors. The Organic Maps codebase was forked due to concerns about the project's governance, transparency, and the potential for shareholder profit at the expense of the community. The CoMaps project was created, focusing on privacy, performance and community.

    Source

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  • [–] 43 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Just keep in mind that the purpose of Airplane Mode is to prevent transmission. Your phone might still be receiving signals like GPS and WiFi SSIDs, which it can record to be transmitted later.

    If you really don’t want to be tracked, leave it home.

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago (23 children)

    I would not be comfortable not having mobile signal. Public WiFi is not going to cut it. Even a 0.00001% chance that I'd miss an important call from my partner is no bueno for me.

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 9 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Would using an old phone as an external cellular hotspot be almost just as private as using an application specific device?

    I just looked at the video and wondered that since there kinda expensive (also I wouldn't be able to use the calyx hotspots since I don't live in the US)

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    There's a bigger security risk because of a larger attack surface, and naturally phones can collect a lot more data than hotspots, but it depends on your threat model.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (16 children)

    Even a 0.00001% chance that I'd miss an important call from my partner is no bueno for me.

    Yikes. I can’t imagine having this level of anxiety about being out of contact.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (15 children)

    I wouldn't say it's an anxiety, I'd say it's a cost-benefit analysis I've done and decided that having cell service to catch a potential emergency call is more important to me than that one extra level of privacy like OP. Hell, I don't want to miss a call even if it isn't an emergency. I love my partner and want to talk to them any chance I can get; if they're calling I want to answer.

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  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago (14 children)

    I’m happy for you.

    I think you dramatically overestimate both the cost of missing a call, and the benefit of not missing a call.

    That said, it sure is convenient.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    I think you drastically underestimate how much I love my partner.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    No doubt.

    I’m sure you’ve got multiple backup carriers and a satellite phone with you at all times to ensure that 99.99999 uptime, which translates to about 4 seconds of downtime a year.

    But surely you weren’t exaggerating that part too.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (7 children)

    Of course the %age I used was an exaggeration. Sorry, was this conversation being driven by the assumption that it wasn't? I exaggerated to make my point.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

    And yet you decided to continue this thread by saying that you weren’t exaggerating.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (5 children)

    And yet you decided to continue this thread by saying that you weren’t exaggerating.

    In fact, I never said that.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children)

    I think you drastically underestimate how much I love my partner.

    This was your response to me saying you were exaggerating.

    What did you mean by this?

    Apologies for assuming you said it because you were refuting my comment.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    What did you mean by this?

    That I love my partner very much.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (2 children)

    That’s great and was very much inferred already.

    Just glad we can all agree that you dramatically exaggerated when you said you needed 7 9s of availability.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I think you dramatically don't understand how different other people are compared to you. Either that, or you lack empathy. I can't think of any other reasons why you would distrust and dismiss their reasoning.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    Hot takes here chunkystyles.

    You really got me thinking about how some people just love each other so much that they would move mountains to make sure they don’t miss a single text message, and that’s completely normal, and not at all anxious behavior.

    That missed text message or call could be the one where they call for help and you don’t get it and oh god what if I could have helped and oh god what if I didn’t get a chance to say goodbye?

    Sure hope this person never drives or rides a bike anywhere. Probably fine if they do text and drive though. Because of the love.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    You're just driving my point home.

    There's really no reason for you to act like this. This kind of snark doesn't endear you to anyone and it doesn't help good faith conversion.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago*

    You're just driving my point home.

    Oh no.

    there’s no reason for you to act like this.

    Act like what?

    Offering opinions in a public forum in support of the OP? Contradicting somebody making a silly claim that they can’t bear to be apart from their partner for 4 seconds a year?

    Defensive when somebody tells me that I lack empathy?

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (15 children)

    I thought you had to have a phone number to use Signal.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (13 children)

    Could have a voip phone number

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    I don't know how to get one and shouldn't have to, just to use an app like Signal. Why isn't there one we can use without having to give them a phone #?

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Just use matrix or xmpp. Signal is centralized. If they stop offering the service it's gone forever.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    There's always a compromise between security and accessibility. Signal is nice in that it's pretty secure while also being acceptable. More secure options aren't very accessible to the average person.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

    SimpleX uses the Signal engine but requires no phone number. Also can awt up your own server (unlike Signal).

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    A search for that term brings up about 10 different things from crypto to herpes, nothing about a messaging app

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Thanks! They also have a desktop and a terminal version, nice.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Last I checked (over a year ago) desktop was not great. IIRC there was no scroll bar.

    Also getting noobs to join is tricky. You cannot use your native camera app to accept an invite (has to be via the SimpleX app) and it screws up invites via Facebook messenger (gets confused by the tracking suffix Facebook appends).

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Well I would be one of those noobs, not having used signal or the like before. :) Camera app--are invites done via a QR code then? And we don't use FB or any of that poison. I doubt I can get anyone to try it out anyway, but good to know about it just in case. Use case would be either an old no-sim phone or android tablet connecting to wifi or wifi hotspot, and/or a laptop/desktop from home.

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Try not having a phone at all. Those conversations are fun

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    I’m someone who likes to walk the path less traveled in general. And in general I’ve found that people don’t respond well to such things. Especially when you explain them in dept. “Oh they choose to be different huh? => let’s ridicule them to cover up our own insecurities”

    I’ve learned through trial, error and ridicule that people need to earn the right to an explanation to these matters.

    I’m not gonna explain to Joe Shmoe that I use Linux because I’m doing my part in not giving the uprise in fascism the steady flow of data they want to increase their influence over the world.

    They’d never understand. They gotta earn that by proving they care about the topic.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    Yeah something like "Nun of yer business." works well.

    Never explain yourself to people who don't want to hear the explanation.

    For nicer people something like "Its probably boring to you." can work well. If they insist they can't complain. :D

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago

    oh wow. mine actually is airplane mode to save battery. TIL.

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  • [–] 29 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Privacy but using public WiFi?..

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  • [–] [S] 29 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    My devices distrust any network, and I always use a VPN. It's obviously not my first choice, but it can still be done safe enough.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    If the wifi has firewall blocking non web ports, do you have a solution for those cases?

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  • [–] [S] 11 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Mullvad VPN and others have "obfuscation" methods to mask your traffic as regular web traffic. If those don't work, I can always connect to a proxy or Tor as a plan B, or see if any other Wi-Fi networks are available. I've never had this be an issue, but there are certainly options available.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I don't have mullvadvpn but I use a different vpn that has obfuscation and I have tried every single setting within it but somehow some networks can still detect the vpn no matter what I try. I am not sure how they can do this.

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago*

    The threat of public wifi isn't as big of a deal as it used to be. Before widespread VPNs and when internet traffic was unencrypted, anything you transmitted could be read by someone else on the network. But nowadays all an eavesdropper would see is what websites you're connecting to (without a VPN) or the VPN if you are using one. Happy to be corrected if I'm mistaken though

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I considered this option, but public WiFi is not ubiquitous enough here (in France) for my usage, and I believe a SIM card is absolutely required even for emergency services, which is what ultimately turned me off the idea.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    SIM card is absolutely required even for emergency services

    For anyone wondering: while technically the cell towers might be able to accept emergency calls even without network authentication (which is what's the SIM is for), there are countries/places that will still require an active SIM with the excuse of wanting to prevent hoax calls.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Public wi-fi is definitely not everywhere, but yeah, either you take joy in sharing the knowledge you have or you end up being a bit rude to prevent being asked.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    That's going to be highly dependent on where you live. In Tokyo I easily got around without service for years since there was wifi at every train station and convenience store

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago

    Something I’ve been investigating is setting up a meshtastic node at home with the expansion board. This gives me a 15-20km range for basic signal, which is more than enough for most stuff I want to do, and I can connect to other nodes in the area when needed.

    I’d still need to add a temporary eSIM when traveling sometimes, but that can be a temporary thing.

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  • [+] 11 points 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    If you explain yourself, people take that as meaning it's up for debate.

    Whenever you run into those people, I think it's best to just tell them to fuck off. Maybe word it a bit more diplomatically, but still get the meaning across that it's not a debate

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 9 months ago

    It's essentially cognitive dissonance. People are introduced to a life so different from their own that they attack it like an overactive immune system. They see it like a problem that needs fixed, rather than a lifestyle to learn about. It doesn't help with how much people are conditioned to criminalize privacy, either.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    So... I'm kind of in the same situation but mine is actually by mistake. Namely my SIM somehow (OK maybe I tinkered with eSIM a bit much... anyway) works for data and SMS but not for calls. I tried to fix it a bit... then honestly I like it without. Most of the calls I received are not important, nor urgent, and the few that are can leave a message or an SMS.

    I stopped relying on my phone for calls entirely and I like it.

    When I tell people it doesn't work they just shrug it off and always find a way to contact me without making a big deal out of it.

    I still like having a SIM though if only to

    • check where I am on a path the first time I get there
    • know if the person I'm meeting might be late
    • warn if I'm late on the way to somewhere

    but typically my phone works well entirely offline (e.g. I do not stream music, I have actual files on my phone) so I understand.

    Honestly in your shoes I'd gauge the person, if they are potentially interesting enough to explore the topic with curiosity, I'd be honest. If I just want to move on because they seem obtuse I'd keep it to the minimum.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I achieve the same by disabling VoLTE and VoWiFi and setting the phone to LTE only in *#*#4636#*#*.

    I love these service menus. *#*#3646633#*#* has so much stuff to permanently screw up on some MediaTeks. But also some useful ones like selection of frequency bands, or even specific frequency and cell id.
    But yeah, some settings can persist factory reset, and some may even be illegal like Tx tests (verified that it does transmit garbage on selected frequency with SDR) or IMEI change. Not all settings are on all devices, and they may even be partially broken.

    But yeah, these settings are don't touch it for the most part (some are just huge lists of undocumented variables). Some don't even seem to be resettable from the menu, I mean menus where you select one option, but by default they are unset. And the band mode selection on Moto G54 5G was... interesting. Rather than a nice selection menu, you can type in a number and select to add or remove it from a vector variable for 4G and 5G. Of course, nowhere does it list valid options or give a reset button.

    And lastly a thing that serves me as a warning for future, when I was playing around with a leaked service program for some Realtek Ethernet adapter, I found out what eFuse memory is. There is no going back.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    that first number singlehandedly helped me fix my mom's phone. for context, 5g reception is quite mediocre where i live (especially if you're on att, which my mom thankfully isn't on). i went to network settings: no band toggle. i opened android's advanced network settings menu: tried to gaslight me that this phone doesn't have 4g (i know damn well it does). finally, that first number in your comment that opens HiddenMenu, showed an entry called "NR debug" or something like that. and there it was: "Disable NR". her phone is so much faster now, but idk how long that will persist since some phones change this shit behind your back after like a week.

    rantto all the carriers and phone manufacturers: JUST GIVES US THE BUTTONS AND KNOBS. WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING AND FORCING US ON YOUR INFERIOR NETWORK IS NOT GOING TO CONVINCE US IT'S BETTER. 5G/NR IS JUST FUNDAMENTALLY A BAD IDEA TO USE FOR CELLULAR TELEPHONY. i miss the days of lte for internet, gsm/cdma for calls, like it was in 2019 and earlier. modern phones and vintage phones worked alike, and volte was merely an optional enhancement.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    5G is fine when comparing with 4G. Just a step up. My issue with them is rather whatever is going on with VoLTE and VoNR. 2G/3G just worked for phone calls, but now you only get that guaranteed by purchasing a phone directly from the carrier. Hell, some carriers even blacklist or whitelist devices just because.
    And in Australia phones are now getting blocked completely, even if they worked with VoLTE because the carrier decided they didn't.. Hugh Jeffrey also made a video about that.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Playing devil’s advocate, I think it’s reasonable to have a load-up-minutes dumb phone, in case family dies or something and they don’t have access to the right app. That’s reasonable for close family to get upset about.

    But you also don’t have to give that number out, heh.

    I guess you could use Google Voice too, but that’s a bit… counterproductive unless you can sandbox the app.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 9 months ago

    I think it’s reasonable to have a load-up-minutes dumb phone

    Those are becoming harder and harder to find. It's hard to even find prepaid SIM cards. You now have to buy a voucher, create an account, and add it there, which activates the phone for the number of months the voucher is worth.

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