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[–] 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

You should probably add to the post that the context of your title is "I want more people to pay for Linux, even if they don't have to" cause right now it can be interpreted as "Ubuntu now makes you pay for Linux" given the massive amount of disinformation surrounding Canonical and Ubuntu Pro.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    If you want to pay, go right ahead.

    But Ubuntu is the last distro deserving - what a mess.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    Well I can tell you I get downvoted for mentioning zorin and from comments it would seem it because they have a paid option. The funny thing is I get complaints because the paid option does have a perk (a gui chooser for emulating a osx or choice of several windows versions) and a linux distor should not be doing that but I also get the reverse that the paid perk is a stupid thing that is not worth it and pointless. Granted paying gets support the usual perk. I kinda thought ubuntu had some sort of enterprise thing to get formal support but maybe only suse and redhat did that. So there are definately some folks that get something in their craw if a paid option is present. I will say I hope zorin is passing on at least half of anything it gets to ubuntu who should be passing back to debian who should pass back to kernel development. I mean zorin is really pretty stock ubuntu lts with a bunch of preinstalled software and some gui tweaks so that the computer is pretty good to go right after installation. I guess though most respins are like that. Just prechosen configs and software packaged together.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago*

    I think there's an issue with who does the work and who gets paid. Zorin is based on Ubuntu, which is based on Debian. The vast majority of the work is done by people who contribute their time to Debian. Ubuntu does a significant amount of work on top, especially around security patching. Zorin does less as they use Ubuntu's repos. So if I pay $100 to Zorin, I end up paying people who did the least amount of work for making Zorin OS. Worse, I did not at all improve the sustainability of Zorin, if an important package maintainer in Debian stops donating their time and Ubuntu doesn't pick up the slack, Zorin's in trouble. This is why merely paying for some open source project may not be enough or the right thing. It's also not clear at all who I should pay unless I spend a lot of time looking into it. It's a problem and there may not be a market solution as these large FOSS projects aren't market phenomena. Debian is driven by dynamics much closer to from each according to their ability to each according to their needs than wage-driven labour.

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  • 22 comments in c/linux@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 74 points 9 months ago* (10 children)

    Paying for services isn't philosophically incompatible with FOSS, that's how companies like RedHat broke through back in the day, but paying for "quick and high-quality security updates" strikes me as alarming. Am I to take from that that they're holding back high-quality security updates from some users? Unless maybe we're talking about extended support for EoL software.

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  • [–] 30 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Ubuntu Pro gives you 5 more years of security updates for versions that are EoL. You can see it here if you scroll down to the maintenance schedule https://ubuntu.com/security/esm

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Glad to hear it's extended maintenance for old software and not making their private users less secure.

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  • [–] 26 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Unfortunately, it's both. They also hold back security updates for non-latest releases that are still covered under Standard support. I work in an environment where we track new CVEs for our builds, and we constantly see vulnerabilities for 22.04 that are fixed in Pro but not made available otherwise.

    Sure, technically you can opt into Pro as an individual user without paying, but it puts everyone who uses off the shelf installs and containers at risk and is therefore an immoral and unethical process in my opinion.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    I take it your build is dependant on the community-maintained Universe repo?
    https://ubuntu.com/security/cves/about#security
    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu
    https://askubuntu.com/questions/1452497/what-are-esm-apps-and-how-do-they-relate-to-ubuntu-pro

    If they already to the work for esm-apps repo then they could at least send those fixes over to the universe repo until the release version is EoL one would think. On the other hand I have no idea what lives in universe and what lives in main.

    That was a rabbit hole.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago*

    Pro involves Canonical making unilateral updates to certain packages, while the main universe relies on the package’s maintainers to make updates available. Unless you were to want Canonical to take over development of every bit of linux software, I don’t see how they could improve this.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but RedHat also had more recent updates compared to CentOS, while also being certified.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    None of this affects what happened "back in the day" which is what I was talking about.

    That said, my understanding of the current packaging philosophy of RHEL/CentOS Stream is that embargoed security fixes go in to RHEL first, then to CentOS Stream once the embargo is lifted (that's pretty much as you'd expect), otherwise everything goes in to CentOS Stream first. Unless you have counter-examples I've not heard of?

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  • [–] 21 points 9 months ago

    Pro is free for 5 devices for individuals.

    If you are running a business, Yes pay for pro in the same way you would have paid for windows.

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago

    If you want technical support, of course you do. Just because a code is open source does not mean it should be free. Developers need to eat too. Another issue is that there are distributions such as ZorinOS that charge money for the right to use a pro version, when in reality it is the same version that you can configure yourself and that ZorinOS belongs to a company, not a user community.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago

    I mean, redhat has been a paid version and it's been around for years

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I’d be happy to pay for things like Ubuntu Touch to have quickly a viable alternative to Android and iOS. It’s possible to donate, but donations tend to not be reliable or make development viable at all. Paying for Open Source seems fine, as long as fund allocation is fully transparent.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah in the end it's big tech that decides what should be developed and what should not. Like for a period of time Microsoft was the biggest contributor to open source, but that's only because they wanted to make windows VMs work...

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    It might sound kinda radical, but I feel that we need a culture shift to people paying for things, even if it’s small amounts, if we want to be truly competitive to „big tech“. Big tech uses venture capital to offer free stuff and thereby establish monopolies. We expect developers to work for free. It does work to an extent, but obviously it’s limited. And also people deserve being paid for their work.

    Some work could be done in the area of how the funds are managed and presented, so it’s transparent and fair.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    For desktop? Ubuntu is one of the worst and slowest desktop distributions; nobody should be paying for that.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    If you need what they provide, I don’t see why not. It’s great to monetarily support open source. Devs need to eat too.

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  • Seems fine, I don't see why a home/DIY user would stay on an Ubuntu LTS release for more than 5 years.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    I'd gladly pay, and I do support some foss projects.

    However I would not pay Canonical for anything. I don't like their products or some of their practices.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    We have to invest time for the helpdesk. It's may be ours, or others (in paying for it). However, I think the Odoo experience show how much this economic model is an incentive to get the software as hard as possible to maintain.

    Maybe we sall have many cooperatives, independents or hire people instead

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