This is the kind of content the .ml admins cultivate through their bans and censorship. They'll frequently remove articles from credible good sources that directly go against their narratives, while allowing misinformation and conspiracy websites to include RT, Sputnik and (as shown) random substack blogs as long as they tow the narratives that align with them.

E.g. Ukraine is a Nazi regime and Russia is just "liberating" the Ukrainian people

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[–] 63 points 1 year ago (6 children)

They're still pushing the "Ukraine are Nazis, here's zero proof!" narrative?

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    This is all just what I remember from research years ago, but at one point there was a pretty large chunk of nazis/sympathizers in azov specifically. They cracked down on extremism since then, but it's conceivable there's a few left.

    Now using that to call every single Ukrainian servicemember and child a nazi to justify actual imperialism? Average braindead tankie take.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    They cracked down on extremism since then, but it’s conceivable there’s a few left.

    Also the most extreme ones are the ones that died first and after broad mobilization the relative proportion shrank naturally. That's just maths.

    And even if these two were not the case, Ukraine has a simple explanation:

    When asked about one of the two Russian groups fighting on Ukraine's side, one being extreme racists who want to make Russia smaller to get rid of regions with non-Russian ethnicities, a government official, maybe even Zelensky personally, said to the press that Ukraine does not have the luxury to pick who fights on their side when the alternative is rape and genocide.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    It's a weird kind of projection. The Russian military is full of nazis. Not that's it's surprising since nazis tend to gravitate towards the military. Wagner for example was founded by and full of nazis, but tankies seem to be OK with that.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, so here's the thing. The Azov Battalion was a Nazi force up until they were obliterated during the Mariupol massacre. It's since been somewhat denazified but they still continue to fly the modified wolfsangel. This is all the Russians can point to. But remember the Russian Wagner group? They too were full fledged Nazis so it's utterly stupid for Putin to point fingers. But that's not the point, it's just a very flimsy reason for the Russians to justify the invasion.

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  • [+] 50 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] [S] 27 points 1 year ago

    This is also why people think Lemmy is nothing but tankies because they're ok with that image.

    Which is why I advocate for pushing large instances, like .world, to defederate as they have for the other 2 instances in the Triad

    We can't force .ml offline and we can't force them to install an actually unbiased and fair admin team.

    But we can control our association with them, if the rest of the network defeds from them at the very least we can all say "yea they're there, but we've cut ourselves off from them because they're nuts" and I think that could go very far

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  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago (37 children)

    The story at present has 9 upvotes, 12 downvotes. The OP posted:

    If any salty Nazi cheerleaders want to complain that this isn’t a news source, you’re wrong. This is an active military correspondent’s blog giving a timeline for events which are not debatable. Better luck next time.

    … which has 4 upvotes and 1 downvote.

    I would bet money that one or two of the upvotes on it are from the .ml moderation/admin team.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago* (16 children)

    I tried using lemvotes.org to check the votes, but I have had trouble getting that site to work for checking votes on some comments. Not sure why.

    Edit: also having trouble checking votes on the post as well. Odd.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I think lemmy.ml defederated from them.

    Every other site more or less doesn't care. Your Lemmy votes are not private. But, lemmy.ml as always cares deeply about controlling the narrative, and talking about who is voting and how and how often particular .ml users feature in the voting patterns, disrupts their ability to pretend that they're standing up for normalcy and a handful of isolated "liberal" instances are the weird ones who love censorship.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    it would be incredible if they convinced .world to share their vote data instead of having their own instance

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's not really necessary; 100% of what you need gets federated out to anyone who asks for it, so it's pretty easy to just set up a little instance for yourself and then do whatever data mining you want to do.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    but for things like lemvotes, they can block the faux-instance that they’ve created to get the data… if they were to get the data via .world it’d be almost impossible (without inside information) to know who to block - and it’s .world, so blocking that is a big choice

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    You're betting that they would be unwilling to block .world in a way that they would be willing to block lemvotes... hm, you might be right. IDK, I'm just not sure it is all worth that much bothering about. That kind of tit for tat of blocking/defederating and then making new stuff to get around the blocking, to try to force somebody to share information they're trying not to, is just kind of silly I think. Better to just address it by talking it out and being reasonable as opposed to having dueling software systems trying to enforce one person's will on another person's system. But, IDK, good luck getting a reasonable and productive response out of either lemmy.ml or lemmy.world admin teams...

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I think whatever shadow instance lemvotes uses either doesn't federate with .ml or .ml blocked it (I can't imagine why they'd do that though!/s lmao)

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I suspected that may be the case, but I am still able to look up .ml users and see their individual votes. Wouldn’t defederating from the lemvotes instance block that too?

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Just checked a .ml user profile I know to be prolific, the last votes it had were from April 29, so that's probably when they got blocked and it's just a cached version

    If you know of a new .ml user that was made after then and it doesn't pull up with them, then that's def what happened

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  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Same reason .world did probably

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (5 children)
    https://kbin.earth/m/worldnews@lemmy.ml/t/1559796/THE-LUGANSK-PEOPLE-S-REPUBLIC-HAS-BEEN-LIBERATED-FROM-THE-NAZI/comment/7556873/favourites
    
    

    (You have to copy/paste)

    How many monis you gib?

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I gib 0

    100% are from .ml, Hexbear, or Lemmygrad.

    I got curious about one Hexbear user, and looked at their profile, and I learned that no one can name any specific human rights abuses China has ever done, and also nobody "here" talks about Israel's human rights abuses.

    Clearly

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Those are the most likely instances to believe in conspiracy theories. Spent a few minutes confirming as much via upvote tallies. I didn’t realize how badly lopsided it was, until now.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yeah. And, also, it is clear when you look at votes that they make organized efforts to "brigade" threads sometimes, all come in and vote to influence the totals, which is something that they constantly accuse others of doing whenever their unpopular views get noticed and dogpiled on.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Every accusation is a confession. Tankies really are like their conservative brethren.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Authoritarians gonna authoritarian

    I don't mean to make much out of little, especially when there are real-world enemies that are endangering us all that we could be focusing on. But it is interesting to me how little regard most of the Lemmy communists have, for anyone's right to exist in their space who expresses any kind of dissent or disagreement, and how unapologetic they are about wielding power without regard for anyone except their own faction.

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  • [+] -20 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    I bet the dv's are from .world brigaders too

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago* (9 children)

    .ml has a persistent myth that it's all lemmy.world that is "against them" and dislikes the Russian government. It's part of their attempt to pretend they are the majority. By implication, every other Lemmy instance is neutral, apparently, except "the liberal instances" (which turns out to be basically all of them).

    I'm sure the downvotes are from off-instance brigaders, if you want to call it that. I have no idea why they would be centralized to lemmy.world, and I doubt they are.

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  • [+] -16 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I go by what I see here and with my own eyes, there.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    How did you come to conclusion that the downvotes were probably .world brigaders?

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  • [+] -14 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I think we both know how disingenuous this is. The thread posted, dv's started rolling in. And I think it's sad people who vicariously self-validate with hypocritical, attention - seeking behavior in the same manner as politicians they whine about use the same behaviors and same "plausible deniability." Sadder still that rather than taking a moment to explore the reflection of the shadow that got us our current politicians, more of the same behavior.

    At least two itt were hardcore genocide deniers wrt Palestine, when I got here and now act like they thought it was always plain to see. I hope the situation regarding Russia, Ukraine, and the USA isn't as dire as that before people start at least looking at information provided by those users, repeatedly, since I got here. Because I used to be in denial, too.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    So when did you see the lemmy.world downvotes with your own eyes? Here or there?

    Lol I'm just messing with you, honestly. I don't think there is all that much productive exchange to be had here.

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  • [+] -14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I'm not. You know exactly what I'm talking about. And you said you were doing better. Are you?

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yeah. Maybe.

    lemmy.ml and friends have a really weird habit that I still haven't completely figured out. They will swear something that isn't factually true, and then if asked to justify it, they'll switch to something the vibes of which more or less line up with the claim, but the facts of which have nothing to do with it.

    Here, watch, I'll prove it: Who are the two people itt who were hard-core Palestinian genocide deniers? What did they say that was denying the genocide?

    I can guarantee that the statement they made will not be denying the genocide. Absolutely 100% guarantee. Instead, it will be "well they said Hamas shouldn't have raped a bunch of people and that's basically the same thing" or something along those lines. But, the shoot-from-the-hip confident assertion of "hardcore genocide deniers" will turn out to be poppycock. I think it is sort of self-selecting that only people who are comfortable with that kind of shifty vibe-y MAGA-adjacent logic stick around on lemmy.ml, because it is so endemic there that you can't really tolerate the place unless you are fully on board with it.

    Prove me wrong. Who are the genocide deniers and when did they deny the genocide? Like I say, in my view there is a 100% chance that it turns out that what they said will turn out to be something different than "there is no genocide in Palestine" but you will make the effort to pretend that it's all the same and so who cares. But who knows, maybe I'm just running my mouth and they are here in all their Zionist glory, in the room with us right now.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I said I'm not, and you want me to embarrass decent people. You're better than this. You're worth the uncomfortable work.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    well of the people downvoting this “theory” of yours right now, 3 of 13 are .world so i’d wager that’s a load of crap

    and as for brigading, .ml users get downvoted to hell across to fediverse in comments… their opinions are just horrible and their arguments are not made in good faith

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago

    I just encountered the OP of that post today, saying EU is not real. You just can't with these people.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Oh damn, they're not even pretending to not being a Russian mouthpiece anymore?

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  • [+] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago

    Mmm yes, must be a very reasonable author that goes by the name "AVATAR OF VENGEANCE" on the internet

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    .ml is great if you need to borrow some crayons. But that's pretty much all they're good for.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    well just blacklist them, make it an echo chamber so it doesn't show literally anywhere else in the fediverse

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Unfortunately, the "block" isn't really a block on Lemmy, it's barely a mute and that goes for user and instance blocks. Because dessalines refuses to implement a proper system (unsurprisingly). It's been 4 years since "blocks" rolled out

    In any case it still allows their toxicity and misinformation to spread, trolling new users who come here unaware of the need to block and such

    Really, the best answer is to call for wide defederation like the rest of the Tankie Triad is treated

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    I think ultimately issues like this will be why I don't choose Lemmy when I finally get around to standing up my own threadiverse node.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    PieFed! I'm more attached to Boost than the underlying server software anyways, so if it ever gets PieFed support I'll be leaving for that

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I'm leaning that direction if only because I have decade-old Python experience which I could potentially dust off and use to contribute to development if I start "dogfooding" PieFed and find things I want to fix or improve.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Is piefed a Lemmy alternative? There are so many new things (very cool!) out there, and Lemmy starts to lose it's luster IMO, not very much interesting news or discussions, lots and lots of "gEnOcIdE" troll bullshit (I mean you can't even ask questions to these people).

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yea, for the most part, but it's still fully federated so you'll still be part of the Threadiverse and will be able to fully see and interact with all of Lemmy's content and users without issues

    But, on PieFed, at least block means block, blocking lemmy.ml or any other instance on PieFed blocks comms and users alike and blocking an individual user on PieFed means they won't be seeing any of your comments or posts. So none of this mute BS on Lemmy where problematic users can still brigade your content and comment "behind your back" on your posts/comments without your knowledge

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Interesting! Is there a good app you'd recommend?

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    .ml was the most tolerable of the tankie triad to me for a long time, but I eventually blocked it as they got worse and worse.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    This is why I've blocked every major .ml instance that pops up on my feed.

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