I’m finding it harder and harder to believe that someone can be this stupid unintentionally.

“Tiny Man Square” LMAO…. The coward won’t even say it.

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[–] 59 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Let's be clear: giving Tiananmen Square a juvenile nickname is a propaganda strategy to make people who disagree with him feel equally stupid and juvenile. Davel's entire spiel is, top to bottom, hypocrisy, as he'll happily weaponize whatever propaganda techniques he can use while mocking others for falling for it, completely oblivious that his body is 72% Kool-Aid at this point.

The irony of his rant about uncomfortable truths will likely be forever lost on him.

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  • [–] [S] 22 points 10 months ago

    Dudes a massive coward that can’t stand up to scrutiny in the slightest. He just spews his copypasta propaganda and then he bails. Only after reaching out to mods/admins to get people’s shit removed/banned.

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  • [–] 47 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Dave complaining about censorship? Wild.

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  • [–] 41 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    "Tiny Man Square"? Who is this guy afraid of?

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  • [–] 17 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    That part reads as "the ignorant westerners are so uninformed and propagandized that they don't even know the name of the square" to me

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  • [–] 29 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    It reads like he's afraid to say the actual name.

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  • [–] 20 points 10 months ago

    If he was afraid of censors he would avoid the topic entirely as common malapropisms like “Tiny Man Square” and “See See Pee” are almost certainly considered.

    Most often these phrases are brought out to mock the person they’re replaying too. For example, before I knew that it wasn’t actually called the “Chinese Communist Party” or “CCP”, which is just what the American State Department calls them in order to make it easy to identify the allegiance of an author, I’d get a lot of “is the see see pee in the room with you now?” replies.

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  • [–] 33 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (9 children)
  • [–] [S] 24 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Some stupid shit they have to make up so they feel like they’re the good guys and everyone else are the bad guys.

    Apparently we burn kittens?

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    It's a reference that I imagine political people under 35 won't catch without doing a search online.

    A reference:

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2014/12/21/the-anti-kitten-burning-coalition-again/

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    That link isn't working for me.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Hm. To provide context then: It is an argument device used by Fred Clark, who goes by Slacktivist, in his writing. His posts are hosted on the Patheos site as he is a religious albeit leftist writer. The link I provided is just one article where he uses it.

    That should hopefully help you navigate towards it, if you're so inclined.

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  • [–] 26 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Rooting for and defending dictators also are an endorphin hit.

    Source: Talked to ex-tankies, know some current dictator fans (usually right-leaning).

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  • [–] 21 points 10 months ago

    He's the proud 1%er who knows what really happened in tiny man square! Trust him, bro'!

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  • [–] 17 points 10 months ago

    Man, the sheer logic leap about feel good endorphins being equivalent to a drug hit. So are you doing drugs when you post things in support of China? Or anything else you feel you have the moral highground on?

    Complete nonsense. Once again they exempt themselves from their own "logic".

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago

    Why is it always the brainwashed that can't stop whining about brainwashing and how THEY sound the cure?

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  • [–] 19 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    That's really the only reaction i can give to his whole rant.

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago

    Mods will be looking for excuses

    That's how you, a bad moderator, operate.

    That isn't how the majority of actually competent moderators do shit.

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    IIRC the western view is inaccurate, in that we typically figure "authorities mercilessly crushed dissent" and the reality is more like "local authorities were swayed by the dissent and nearly turned against the government, so the government sent the goddamn army to crush those authorities too."

    But the one-party state declares itself the only representation of the people's will, so obviously any popular defiance is a contradiction.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago

    Yup. To make an American parallel, imagine if cops suddenly joined in on left wing anti-Trump protests… And then in response, Trump rolled tanks in and crushed both protesters and cops.

    The message behind Tiananmen Square wasn’t for the protestors, because they already knew what was at stake. The message was for the authorities who may have been considering doing similar things. Stay in line and support the administration; the nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    “local authorities were swayed by the dissent and nearly turned against the government, so the government sent the goddamn army to crush those authorities too.”

    It's an ancient tankie tradition, after all. Hell, it doesn't get more traditional than where you get the name from.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    more like “local authorities were swayed by the dissent and nearly turned against the government, so the government sent the goddamn army to crush those authorities too.”

    In other words "authorities mercilessly crushed dissent"?

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago

    I'm pretty sure that video I watched a while back with all the bodies was a good indicator of what happened in tankie heaven.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    "Brainwashing"

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (3 children)

    Off topic but I d rather choose CCP than current US gov

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  • [–] -2 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    Watching all of you argue ad nasuem about what state is the goodest boi is infuriating. On a macro level its just tribalism again.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 10 months ago (7 children)
  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    I see you are employing the UniversalMonk strategy instead of engaging. It'd be nice to talk about why people feel the need to defend ravenous states but okay.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 10 months ago* (5 children)

    It’s not employing anything let alone implying anything that douchebag says or does-

    But when someone pops in with their two cents being- “you’re both being dumb”- it’s a safe bet that you won’t be met with an invitation to discuss your profundity more deeply.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    I mean you gotta realize at one point it is just tribalism, right? How many China Bad, US bad arguments can we have before we get some nuance?

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    Y'know you're kinda not wrong, but the thing you (and every tankie, but of course with them it's by design) seem to miss is that "China bad" doesn't mean "US good." "US better" doesn't even mean "US good."

    This community exists solely to push back on the pro red-flavored-authoritarianism sect of lemmy.

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  • [+] -4 points 10 months ago* (2 children)
  • [+] -21 points 10 months ago (38 children)

    I love how in your last post here you claimed people were insulting you and being childish then you post this shit lmao. Davel and others on .ml have posted other things on the subject you just cherry-picked this to get internet points. Deeply unserious. 

    The Tian’anmen Square “massacre” narrative is a collection of lies and propaganda used by the CIA to get (mostly) westoids to hate the PRC. Anyone who continues to believe it does the state department’s work for free. Here’s another overview on the events that will help with deprogramming.

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    What a deeply unserious person you are. Do you even read theory? Obvious troll.

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  • [+] -14 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    Sees someone post sources that challenge my manufactured worldview - must be a troll!

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Prole wiki and autistic ci, known CIA propaganda sites. Try harder, fed troll

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  • [+] -14 points 10 months ago* (4 children)

    Simply reading prolewiki’s and autistici’s about pages will show that your claims are asinine. Nice sprinkle of ableism too bigot

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    You use the language of real leftists, but not like a native speaker. Go back to Quantico, fed troll. Take more classes.

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  • [+] -10 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Why would a fed post things that go against fed-programming 😭

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  • [–] 21 points 10 months ago* (5 children)

    TLDR: "it's good when soldiers murder civilian protesters."

    That sentiment's gonna be a tough one for me to accept dawg.

    Your sources contradict each other btw.

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  • [+] -19 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    It is horrible that people died, especially the soliders the CIA-backed protesters brutally killed. The CPC had to crackdown on the foreign influence that was trying to overthrow the government.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    This is the problem with tankies: immoral contempt for universal human rights, the ends justify the means.

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  • [+] -7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    tankies

    People can we please stop using this word it doesn’t mean anything and MLs don’t take offense from it!

    Despite us disagreeing I still think you deserve free healthcare, housing, education, a fair payment for work free of exploitation, and good healthy living conditions.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    But not protection of universal human rights from unrestricted government authority: deal breaker & immoral.

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  • [–] -4 points 10 months ago

    You’re right there are some “human rights” I don’t believe should be protected, for example the ability to freely become a capitalist. Capitalism, and by extension fascism, needs to be repressed since both are oppressive, exploitative, and destructive systems that prevent the progression of human development.

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  • [–] [S] 19 points 10 months ago* (21 children)

    So you come here to spread your bullshit and propaganda in his defense? Loving those “reliable” sources of yours!

    LMAO!

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  • [+] -18 points 10 months ago (20 children)

    Nah I do this for the love of the game. And where are your reliable sources that prove what you say? Go ahead and check the CIA archives I’ll wait.

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  • [–] [S] 13 points 10 months ago* (7 children)

    Reliable sources?

    I call to the stand- REALITY.

    Oh and hey bud, while reality is up there ripping the living shit out of your flimsy argument- take note how you’re not being removed or blocked for the dumb shit you’re saying here.

    Lastly- to the rest of us, it’s not a game. I get that your entitlement doesn’t let you see thar we’ve been playing with live ammo here, but people are suffering because of ignorance spread by idiots that follow the propaganda you follow.

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  • [+] -15 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    And you have nothing. If you’d take the time to read what I posted in them are specific sources that do explain reality. I don’t blindly accept Western propaganda/talking points like I used to. 

    playing with live ammo 

    What are you talking about? lol

    Also who is suffering because I don’t believe CIA claims? 

    I mean go ahead and remove/ban me if you want, I’ll take it as a badge of honor 😁

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 10 months ago* (5 children)

    I have nothing? If we suspend reality and insert your weird little propagandized version of it, I suppose you could say that. But as far as taking the time to read the bullshit you shared? No. That’s not gonna happen, bud.

    When someone says dumb shit like “I don’t believe in CIA claims” about a VERY public and very well known even in history, I tend to dismiss them and everything they have to say as irrelevant and not worth the effort to take seriously. Im sure you’re pretty acclimated to this by now.

    And playing with live ammo. Seriously? You’ve never heard this term? I’m surprised considering how you all goon yourselves dehydrated over public displays of warfare,

    I mean… come on! All those innocent victims of the TIANANMEN SQUARE didn’t just massacre themselves, right? Someone had to anoint all those tanks with…. “good luck”.

    I’ll digress.

    What people in the real world mean by “playing with live ammo” is that all decisions are final. There’s no practice rounds. And your entitlement enabled Putin’s little butt-puppet to bring hell on earth down on many innocent people.

    But that’s the point, isn’t it?

    Lastly, I don’t have the power to remove or ban you- and even if I did, I’d leave your embarrassing bullshit up as an shining example of why this community exists.

    I’m not the one with nothing, comrade.

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  • [+] -7 points 10 months ago* (4 children)

    You’re still not saying anything of substance and nothing to make me realign with your worldview

    Very public and very well known

    Overwhelmingly the evidence points to there being no massacre and I’ve provided sources for it. Here’s another comment I made on this post providing more.

    taking the time to read, no

    Continue to be purposefully ignorant then idk

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Did you miss the part where I said I don’t waste my time debating people who say dumb shit? That you can actually believe ridiculous nonsense like that doesn’t bode well for any attempt I might make to change your mind- so why would I try?

    And that I’ve already told you that I’m not reading your propaganda- and you post it anyway clearly shows you don’t command the grey matter to discuss anything worthwhile.

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  • [–] -3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    waste my time debating people who say dumb shit

    Not saying the claims I believe is dumb shit since its backed by sources you refuse to read, but you should’ve responded to the part of my first comment where I was criticizing you, not what I had to say about Tian'anmen Square.

    Not reading your propaganda

    You sound like my ex friends who despite me showing them scientific evidence for why we should accept trans people they continue to be transphobic. People who resist knowledge are the most pathetic people to me.

    Post it anyways

    Hell yeah I did because its more proof that shows why you’re wrong.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Okay bud, I got a run for like- an hour. Are you going to be okay here until I get back? I know you are starved for my attention- and while I’d like to be able to give it you you..

    I really just don’t care.

    But hang in there buddy! I promise I’ll be back here pretending that what you say matters in a bit!

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  • [–] -4 points 10 months ago*

    Its funny how since there’s no substance to your worldview/arguments you go off on this weird tangent trying to insult me when we’re replying to eachother in about the same amount of time lmao

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (11 children)

    I'll ask the question which I already know from experience to be tankie kryptonite:

    What sources, to you, are reliable? Wikipedia? Al Jazeera? UN reports? Something else? What could I point to, that you would believe after I pointed to it?

    Because their whole worldview is based on groupthink and hostility, they won't answer this question. Because they know what the next step would be as soon as they admitted some particular source into the equation and let the conversation become grounded in reality...

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  • [–] -5 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    tankie

    I want to let know this word means nothing and doesn’t have the effect you’re hoping for. 

    What sources, to you, are reliable?

    Basically sources that don’t advance Western imperialism. The US has been trying to destabilize and overthrow the PRC government since it was founded so I don’t take any of their claims to heart. The interests of capital clearly have an agenda and spends millions of dollars to make us think a certain way - in this case to make us against China. I also got over my sinophobia so its easier to read things directly from China or things about the country.

    This source goes in how Western media got it wrong at first and they had to walk it back, one directly from China, another from China, one about how the US fabricated the lie, and one from the UK just to show that there is some credible information coming from the West. Even the rest of the video of “Tank man” shows him go on top the tank, talk with a soldier, then gets off peacefully. Overwhelmingly the evidence shows there was no massacre. 

    This isn’t the only thing the US/West lies about either, they lie about virtually everything and things become clearer the more you read and break out of the propaganda wall.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    Actually, follow-up question: Does it include Noam Chomsky?

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    Al Jazeera is hit or miss. Chomsky is trash.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Great. So your criteria include a little bit more than just "sources that don't advance Western imperialism." Can you give some examples? Maybe, like, a couple of academic sources, and a couple of journalistic ones?

    (Like I said, I've had this conversation before, more than once. I'm well aware of why you are so reluctant to give a straight answer to this simple question. I'm curious whether you are aware of why you aren't able to give a straight answer...)

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (4 children)

    I’ve answered your questions and provided multiple sources I find reliable in this thread. If you pointed to any of those then yeah I would be with you but honestly since you decide to believe the CIA propaganda nothing you could point to would change my mind, and I’d rather avoid mental regression. I used to think like you, said “China bad” and decried about tankies but once I started educating myself on socialism and AES states my worldview changed and realized we didn’t know shit about shit. What you believe is not substantiated by facts or evidence, its a compilation of lies from people who want to colonize China. Drop the (western) chauvinism and read something at least neutral on the PRC, doesn’t have to be related to this subject. I’m curious though if you have an Al Jazerra or other source waiting in the chamber that disproves what I’m saying I’d like to read it for old times sake - I’ll be waiting for what the next step is! 

    For bonus here’s some more sources with TONS of reliable information on the Tiananmen protests, including one from my favorite for all things China, the Qiao Collective:

    • Tiananmen Protests Reading List

    • The Myth of Tiananmen

    • How psy-ops warriors fooled me about Tiananmen Square: a warning

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    I’ve answered your questions and provided multiple sources I find reliable in this thread.

    Not really. You provided your argument, but you steadfastly have refused to identify any source that you would accept as valid if I used it as part of my argument. This matches my previous experience with y'all: The lecture is only ever allowed to go in one direction.

    I would be with you but honestly since you decide to believe the CIA propaganda

    Lol

    Okay. You seem very sure of what I believe and where I got the ideas. So tell me: What do I think happened in Tienanmen Square?

    I mean, you don't have to answer, but this style of argumentation (where you tell me all about what I believe, instead of listening to me telling you what I believe) is also very very common with y'all. It makes it more or less impossible to make progress with the conversation in any non-circular fashion.

    The Myth of Tiananmen

    You know what? Fine. Let me take a look at this.

    The Chinese government estimates more than 300 fatalities. Western estimates are somewhat higher. Many victims were shot by soldiers on stretches of Changan Jie, the Avenue of Eternal Peace, about a mile west of the square, and in scattered confrontations in other parts of the city, where, it should be added, a few soldiers were beaten or burned to death by angry workers.

    Black and Munro say “what took place was the slaughter not of students but of ordinary workers and residents — precisely the target that the Chinese government had intended.” They argue that the government was out to suppress a rebellion of workers, who were much more numerous and had much more to be angry about than the students. This was the larger story that most of us overlooked or underplayed.

    Er

    This is your argument for why the PRC isn't as bad as portrayed in Western media? They responded to an anti-government demonstration by killing at least 300 people? And the most relevant thing is that it didn't happen inside the square, but elsewhere?

    Let's back up a bit. In addition to telling me what I believe happened in the square, can you tell me what you believe happened? Do you think this CJR article you sent me is generally accurate?

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

    refused to identify any source that you accept as valid if I used it apart of my argument 

    Well that was a dumb question then, just post the source if you have one and we’ll go from there

    seem sure of what I believe 

    Based on the sub, the post, my first comment, the content of your reply and your unironic use of tankie I assumed you have anti-PRC bias, but if I’m wrong I’m wrong

    I think the end of the CJR article is a little shaky but its still good for the overall report of the events. There was no massacre of thousands of people in the square like it was first reported by the West. It was a legitimate protest that was taken over by foreign influence (CIA) and enflamed to the point where people began murdering unarmed PLA soldiers. I don’t agree with what some soldiers then did and its terrible that innocent people died. It’s something the PRC has expressed regret about and is working to move past it with it’s people. You won’t find that kind of self-reflection and accountability in the West.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Well that was a dumb question then, just post the source if you have one and we’ll go from there

    Where will we go from there?

    Would it develop once we get there, perhaps, that anything negative about the CCP automatically gets discounted as "biased" or not "reliable" and you would retreat into a landscape where you'll accept any reliable source, anything at all that isn't corrupted, but where you refuse under any circumstances to identify what those sources could look like, or which of them seem to have established a pretty solid track record of being grounded in reality, because of what unpleasant truths might be revealed from the same sources you had admitted might have something relevant to say?

    Like I say, this isn't my first time having this conversation lol. I knew in advance that you would refuse to admit what might be reliable sources on my side, keeping the power and privilege solely for yourself to determine what is a legitimate source and making your arguments on that unequal playing field and only there. As soon as you admit that something might be factual or trustworthy that doesn't correspond with your preexisting biases, the whole game falls apart.

    Based on the sub, the post, my first comment, the content of your reply and your unironic use of tankie I assumed you have anti-PRC bias, but if I’m wrong I’m wrong

    Okay, so you don't know what I believe, or where I got my ideas. Apology accepted. Progress! Try not to come out of the gate with wild haymaker strawmen in the future, it'll make your conversations a lot more two-sided (although without admitting that someone else might be able to point to real facts you don't like because they contain "bias," it'll still be pretty limited how far it will go).

    It was a legitimate protest that was taken over by foreign influence (CIA) and enflamed to the point where people began murdering unarmed PLA soldiers.

    Oh, wow. Murder. Well, we can't have that. That is terrible. Of course,

    I don’t agree with what some soldiers then did and its terrible that innocent people died.

    Oh, wow. Innocent people died. Passive voice. What a fucking tragedy. Of course no one wants that kind of thing to happen.

    You gotta get a desk at the NYT helping cover Gaza, I think they'd really appreciate your self-reflection and accountability on this topic.

    It’s something the PRC has expressed regret about and is working to move past it with it’s people. You won’t find that kind of self-reflection and accountability in the West.

    Oh, wow. Where did they issue their public statement of regret and self-reflection about it? I must have missed their clear expression of responsibility for the killings.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    anything negative about the CCP automatically gets discounted as “biased” or “not reliable”

    Um I never said that, and the conversation is focused on Tiananmen Square. I will say though that most of the what happened during the Cultural Revolution, some decisions by Mao, and their invasion of Vietnam are some things I disagree with.

    refuse to admit what might be reliable sources on my end 

    I already explained that I’ve been through the whole Western narrative and don’t believe in what the West/CIA/imperialists have to say anymore. But still I’m waiting for somebody to send their source instead of saying “lol” or “it’s reality bro.” You’re going too off track you should’ve just sent what you believe and sources to back it up in the beginning instead of trying to “trap” me. 

    passive voice

    Innocent people were killed and it was a tradegy. Now if capitalists/reactionaries/ fascists/CIA agents were killed I’m not feeling bad for them. 

    Where did they issue…

    So when you finally send something its just a short MSN article about China owning Rubio? Fuck Rubio lol do you actually believe what he says?

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