Boiling lobsters while they are alive and conscious will be banned as part of a government strategy to improve animal welfare in England.

Government ministers say that “live boiling is not an acceptable killing method” for crustaceans and alternative guidance will be published.

The practice is already illegal in Switzerland, Norway and New Zealand. Animal welfare charities say that stunning lobsters with an electric gun or chilling them in cold air or ice before boiling them is more humane.

top 39 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 178 points 10 months ago (10 children)

Honestly that seems pretty reasonable. Boiling things alive is pretty barbaric.

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    I feel like chilling them is even worse. They usually live in cold waters, and chilling them in cold air (like a fridge) will just mostly make them suffocate for a while before you boil them alive. They can live a long time out of the water in a cold environment/on ice (think 24 to 48 hours long, not 2 or 3) because it just slows down their biological processes since they're cold blooded. They're just going to warm up again as they're boiling, and it will probably take longer to start boiling as they have to come back up from a lower temperature.

    Even the shock method seems kinda useless. It would need to knock them out for about 20 minutes to ensure that they're unconscious until they're dead.

    The most humane thing to do would be to kill them somehow in one moment, like with a concussive force or stabbing through the brain stem, but that then runs into the issue of how quickly dead lobsters go bad (also the issue of presentation - people don't want a crushed lobster staring at them from their plate). It's actually illegal in plenty of places to sell dead lobsters (or even cook them!) due to this, so they would have to be killed on site just before being cooked, which is a tall order when 1lb of lobster meat requires about 5lbs of lobster to make (roughly about a 20% yield on lobsters) and it takes about 5 years for a lobster to reach 1lb in size (and then about 2 years for every pound after that).

    All of this said, it's all still probably more humane than that one company I used to work with back when I was in this kind of industry that was experimenting with getting raw lobster meat out of lobsters by tossing them into a pressure vessel.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 16 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, I don't really have enough knowledge to offer a solution beyond "if we can't kill them in a humane way, maybe we just don't need to eat lobster."

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago* (2 children)

    The most humane thing to do would be to kill them somehow in one moment...

    This is a thing.

    https://easycleancook.com/how-to-kill-a-lobster-before-you-cook-it/

    1. The Rapid Destruction of the Central Nervous System

    One of the most humane methods of killing a lobster is referred to as the “stabbing method.” This technique involves quickly severing the lobster’s central nervous system, ensuring a fast and painless death.

    Procedure (tigger warning/NSFW?)

    Prepare the Lobster: Place the lobster on its back on the cutting board. Hold it firmly but gently to stabilize it.

    Identify the Right Spot: Locate the cross section of the lobster’s carapace (the hard shell) right behind the eyes. This spot contains nerve ganglia that, when severed, will cause a rapid death.

    Make the Cut: Using a sharp chef’s knife, make a swift incision right at the identified spot. Aim for a clean, quick cut to ensure that the nervous system is disrupted immediately.

    Confirm the Kill: After cutting, the lobster should not exhibit movement. If it does, wait for a few moments to ensure that the process has been effective.

    Basically yeah, as you say, cut its brain stem.

    There are chefs who know exactly how to do this, it just requires skill and precision.

    This ia arguably the proper way to prepare and serve lobster, as, when done correctly... well, beyond being the most humane method, it also produces the most flavorful dish.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    Agreed, and I vaguely remembered something along these lines from my time cooking them, but I also know how many that I was cooking in a day as just a small scale operation at a local fish market cooking and shucking for lobster meat and cooking for the occasional customer to take home with them (I think the most we did in a day was close to one metric ton), and how unfeasible it is to do on a large scale.

    I was doing 50 lbs at a time per pot, with 2 large stovetop pots at a time. That's 25+ lobsters per pot, averaging probably about 60 lobsters per hour that I was cooking by myself. Imagining trying to do that at an industrial scale sounds like the kind of thing that would effectively kill lobster meat as anything other than an expensive specialty item.

    And although maybe it should kill mass market lobster meat (why in the hell does McDonald's sell lobster rolls in the first place???), I also have a visceral gut reaction to the idea of effectively making a food the exclusive domain of the rich. Especially when my boss at that job would make a big stink about people buying fish with Social Security money like poor people don't deserve to eat anything other than rice and beans.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    Well dang, I appreciate the insight from someone who's actually done it!

    But uh... yeah... it really just does seem to be the case that America is run by people who hate poor people, who also become (at least in their own minds) not poor, by creating poor people, who run business models that encourage people to become poor.

    Its like a tautological loop of 'I'm scamming you and that makes me better than you' as an ethos.

    The pathological malignant narcissist society.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    I mean... its not really banning Halal slaughter.

    Its adding a step to it.

    Around 88% of animals slaughtered in the UK for Halal are stunned first. All animals slaughtered under the Shechita (for Kosher) are non-stunned.

    Just gotta get that 88% up higher toward 100%, of stunning them (ie, obliterating their frontal lobe, I think?)... and also put that step into play for Kosher slaughter as well.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 39 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    Good. This may seem like a joke now but slowly over decades people will stop doing this.

  • source
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

    it'll be 80 years before this policy reaches Southeast Asia, where they are regularly cutting live frogs in half below the torso with scissors in the markets, tossing all the dying frog torsos together in a big pile. maybe 180 years actually

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Why do they cut them that way in particular?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago*

    they eat the legs. some folks will cut the head off and some folks will cut down by the torso. the frog will be grabbing at the scissors uselessly. if it bites, they will snip the mouth off. its very quick. grab a frog, snip snip, toss the frog into the pile, repeat. like harvesting a plant

    why don't they all just cut at the head? i have no idea. i think the experience of the animal is simply not considered

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    I do think the next human milestone would be to realize killing animals for sustenance is wrong, and I'm saying that as a meat eater.

    I think "decades" sadly is a bit too optimistic

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Most people are happy to eat alternatives provided they are as cheap and taste good. The meat industry can be killed by good vegan food.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I reckon culture-grown meat will be the big one that shifts people away from slaughter meat.

    Sure, growing it from a culture will still have people refusing on ethics grounds, but it's damned sight less suffering.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 67 points 10 months ago (16 children)

    Will always be funny to me that lobsters are such an expensive delicacy at fine dining restaurants when they started out as food for extremely poor people in coastal communities. In the old days the general public viewed eating them as you would view eating a rat today.

  • source
  • hideshow 16 child comments
  • [–] 46 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    Oysters have made the switch between poor people food and rich people food quite a few times. Tuna has made the switch in my lifetime. It probably has something to do with how easy they are to harvest/catch when plentiful versus the results of overfishing, and how delicate the food is in the supply chain.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 21 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    Bacon also, it used to be cheap as fuck. Same with chicken wings. Two of the cheapest parts of the animal, now magically nearly the most expensive.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Its both here, cooking bacon is the cheapest boneless meat I have ever seen per weight. But you can also get pretty fancy expensive bacon choices too.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    what are you talking about. bacon and chicken wings are cheap. almost every other desirable cut of pig/chicken is more expensive. chicken wings are often 1-2 dollars a lb.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Where are you getting wings that cheap? They're usually like $3-4 a lb in the south and bacon is usually $6+ a lb...only if you grab it in bulk does bacon go down to like $3.50ish and you're buying the rejection stuff that doesn't look pretty but still tastes fine.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Give the tech bros long enough and rat will be a delicacy for the rest of us aswell

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Lobster is only ok. I don't think I've ever had anything with lobster in it that wasn't independently good, or improved in any meaningful way with lobster.

    That said, when lobster was viewed the way you're describing, it was seen as more of a pest. There was so much lobster freely available, it was literally piling up on beaches. No one was fishing for lobsters, they were just scooping them up and then making a rather revolting stew with them. That was being served to prisoners as a form of penance, meant to be bland and unstimulating. Sandy guts and all.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    While they were called 'sea rats',they werent considered quiteas bad as rats- it was common for servant's contracts to limit the number of meals lobster could be served to them for, usually 1 or 2 a week, not the hard 0 that serving rat would have been.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›
    8 comments in c/world view that post
    2 comments in c/vegan@lemmy.world view that post