In this thread: people who believe the myth of the safe C programmer. The one who has memorized the spec and is able to hold endless context in their brain while writing code. They themselves are C compilers.
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I think it's time for this instance to consider introducing a filter where users have to choose a language they know (any language), and then have to answer easy questions about it (in a specific way), before being able to post here.
It can be limited to specific posts, to limit the false-negative filtering of genuine discourse.
This should help with bots, or worse, actual humans who accepted being shaped into acting like ones. The line separating the two has become very thin anyway, given the prevalence of LLM use, both automatic AND manual.
If only there were a few alternatives to Rust for system development with a syntax that isn't a marriage of flesh between OCaml and C. Unfortunately none exists, because if I say otherwise, rustacerans will accuse me of "FUDposting", and some will even try to dig up some dirt about me, to ruin my life and to ultimately force me off the web, because shame is good, except if they're the target of said shame.
So we're left with a language that:
- Was marketed as a functional programming language until people started to "FUDpost" about how functional programming has its own issues (optimization, etc.), so the Rust team quickly tried to course correct and market it as a "multi paradigm" language. It is "FUD" if you ask why it's still const by default. If only Oracle found out about this tactic, to market Java as a "multi paradigm programming language", because you can just "opt out from OOP aspects", then tell its usiers that "packaging classes are just good practice".
- Makes many optimizations very ugly if not impossible.
- Makes memory unsafe operations ugly, to "disintensivise the programmer from them".
- Has a pretty toxic userbase, which is only being called out by Lunduke-style toxic morons with anti-woke brainrot, and for the wrong reasons. No, the problem isn't that many people in the Rust community are often trans, and that the code of conduct aren't a selection of Bible-verses, but that a portion of Rust users weaponize callouts, with this callout weaponization actually coming from 4chan and other sites that pioneered networked harassment.
I'm surprised that you didn't mention Zig. It seems to me to be much more popular than either C3 or D's "better C" mode.
It is “FUD” if you ask why it’s still const by default.
I'd be curious if you could show any examples of people asking why Rust is const by default being accused of spreading "FUD". I wasn't able to find any such examples myself, but I did find threads like this one and this one, that were both quite amiable.
But I also don't see why it would be an issue to bring up Rust's functional-programming roots, though as you say the language did change quite a lot during its early development, and before release 1.0. IIRC, the first compiler was even implemented in OCaml. The language's Wikipedia page goes into more detail, for anyone interested. Or you could read this thread in /r/rust, where a bunch of Rust users try to bury that sordid history by bringing it to light
Makes memory unsafe operations ugly, to “disintensivise the programmer from them”.
From what I've seen, most unsafe rust code doesn't look much different compared to safe rust code. See for example the Vec implementation, which contains a bunch of unsafe blocks. Which makes sense, since it only adds a few extra capabilities compared to safe rust. You can end up with gnarly code of course, but that's true of any non-trivial language. Your code could also get ugly if you try to be extremely granular with unsafe blocks, but that's more of a style issue, and poor style can make code in any language look ugly.
Has a pretty toxic userbase
At this point it feels like an overwhelming majority of the toxicity comes from non-serious critics of Rust. Case in point, many of the posts in this thread
There's a lot here that I could comment on, but I'm particularly fascinated that you make a big deal about const by default.
First of all, it's not particularly good evidence that rust is functional, you could just as easily have a const-by-default java or c. Rust still has mutable data structures which is decidedly non-functional. I do actually think that rust is more inspired by fp than a lot of other languages so it's not even that you're completely wrong here, it's just an odd example.
Secondly, do you actually think that const variables is a bad default? Personally I find that it makes it code easier to read when the author is explicit that a variable is going to be mutated down the line because it makes the intention clearer. It also makes it easier for the compiler to make certain optimizations which is significant in a low-level language.
I can tell you got filtered.
plenty more fish in the sea
Sounds like a healthy move. Of course, now they need to promote a few reviewers to maintainers to replace those who have left / are leaving.
You know a project has truly matured when the original maintainers can all walk away and the project can carry on without them.
Sad to see Mr. Gaynor step down
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