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[–] 55 points 11 months ago (11 children)

Geezus Lisbon, get your shit together.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    Isnt it the expats that are driving up the prices

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  • [–] 21 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Iirc it's not immigrants but Airbnb. I've read articles about it, but it might be somewhere else

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Lisbon has pretty strict airbnb regulations though

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    That I don't know for sure, but they have a short term rental registry and the units are labeled as such and there are signs in some places and a general information campaign warning tourists against "illegal listings." Every place we stayed (4 total) was on the official registry. My understanding is that airbnb tends to play ball with these laws so as to not get banned, and most of the illegal listings are through scummy travel agents and smaller apps, which has kind of always been an issue.

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  • [–] 45 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Weird choice to not include cities as big as the capitals. Milan, Zurich and Barcelona would definitely have been interesting.

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  • [–] 30 points 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 27 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    This is, quite possibly, the most useless map I've seen.

    Not only is it using average salaries, it's also only looking at country capitals, where executive salaries are notoriously obnoxious.

    For this to have any real-life use, it should be using the median salary, at the very least, and use the average apartment price based on data from, I don't know, top-10 cities.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    That would be better, although I'd guess it would look similar in the end.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (4 children)

    It would look VERY different. The median salary in Poland in 2024 was around €1550. The average monthly rent for an apartment in Warsaw in 2025 is €1440. The average price of groceries for a month in Warsaw is around €220.

    Assuming you work from home and your water/heating/electricity/Internet costs are somehow zero (they aren't), you're still -€110 per month, instead of having half your salary left.

    Large cities are notoriously expensive in Poland.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)

    Poland did come across as a hard-to-exist-in eastern country on this map as well. The numbers would of course be different, but I'm not sure the pattern would be.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    What do you mean? According to this map, you need to spend around half of your salary for accommodation, which puts it near the middle of the stack. And, considering the average salaries, would allow you live very comfortably.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    I guess you're right. It's not Vienna, but it's not Kyiv either.

    Do you think housing would come out worse in Poland than places like Russia or Turkey if it was measured correctly?

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Housing is pretty bad in Poland overall. Cheapest apartments are also 2+ hours away from any work opportunities. I don't know enough about the Turkish or russian markets to have an opinion, though.

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  • [+] 22 points 11 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 29 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    Policies that are too welcoming to expats with high incomes and foreign remote workers that like sunny weather and cheap everything.

    Also: air b&b’s and cheap ryanair flights

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I suppose Portugal could do with a couple more cities with over a million inhabitants. It goes huge Lisbon, then relatively small Porto.

    But Portugal should be for the Portuguese, I feel like the Algarve is mostly Brits and Dutchies

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    I feel like "X should be for the X-people" is maybe not the best phrasing, considering how that tends to play out throughout history.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    I feel there is a distinction between, let's call them 'original inhabitants', being xenophobic towards refugees and those inhabitants being economically unable to live in their own country due to rich folks buying vacation homes

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  • [–] 18 points 11 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago

    Local politicians seem to be more interested in "unicorn factories" and WebSummit show off events than solving the issues of the people that elected them. Twice. So the voters may not be too bright either.

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  • [–] 70 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    What part of tiny pie charts was necessary? Just make a heatmap but in dots.

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  • [+] 14 points 11 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    No but seriously, Lisbon how?

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    demand

    lots of people want to live there. rents go up.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    And there are always openings because they all starve to death?

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago

    lisbon 🥀🥀

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago

    This is a bad "map". The pie charts add clutter to the image, and it's not immediatly obvious how two cities compare. The country borders offer no additional information other than vague context for those who know what countries are located where. Since there is only one datapoint per country, it might as well have been a line of columns showing percentage of salary used by colouring part of the column red. The map medium does not help in anyway to provide the information.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    ITT: people with no idea how to represent a proportion.

    Pie charts are correct, here.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Looking at this map and its indecipherable piecharts made me go "huh most of the capitals are actually livable" ... then I compared them with the only place where I have an idea of the rent, Copenhagen, and WTF?

    I wouldn't even move to Copenhagen, how the fuck are y'all affording these other prices? Undisclosed income? WTF?!?

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Terrible charts aside, Bern and Vienna were surprising to me. Good wages? Or rent control laws?

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    adequate housing supply for the housing demand.

    a concept a lot of cities actively refuse to believe is possible by their obsession with limiting development.

    for rents to be stable you need 6-7% of available units vacant. almost double that vacancy if you want to drive prices down.

    the vacancy rate in many places is like 1%. hence the rents going up super fast YoY. in my city people bid up rent because there are so few apartments available. so it lists for 2800/mo and the person that gets it is paying 3200/mo.

    my city builds like 5000 new apartments per year. the population is growing by like 25,000 people per year. so the rent is skyrocketing. we keep adding lots and lots of jobs. every new development is like 5000 jobs, and 100 apartments. where are the other 4900 people going to live?

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 11 months ago

    unfortunately there is no amount of wage that prevent high rent.. on the contrary. All the city with low relative rend have rent control laws.

    And they must be updated often since landlords try to sneak their way.

    For exemple, in Paris, there is a fashion trend of building offering " coworking rent", where they rent you a 10m2 for exuberant price, and they justify it by having a "PC room " in the building or something. So the city is in the process of banning thoses "coworking" place, which are just a way to bypass rent control law

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    Once again, Portugal is so far west it underflows into eastern Europe.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    Is this 3D diagrams across a 2D map?

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)
  • How is Rome not all red?

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Around 7% for a 5 bedroom house, including property taxes. I got lucky, landing a $106k purchase and then getting a $110k salary a few years later.

    I hate my house, but it's mine and it's 7% of my base salary. It's lower than mine and my employers combined contributions to my rpp and rrsp.

    I dread my renewal next summer..

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago*

    Make sure you get only the largest, densest cities. Perfect.

    Maybe a zoomable heat map would've been more fair.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Nothing like an infographic to immediately enrage nerds

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago*

    The arithmetic mean of city-center and outside-center one-bedroom apartment rents was used.

    Ain't no one renting in the center of Moscow unless they're approaching fuck-you money.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    The one for Zagreb doesn't look realistic. I wanted to find the source, but I guess my search skills aren't that great today. 

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago*

    Seriously go look at pictures of Bern, Switzerland right now.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    This isn't factoring in other factors, like how the tax rate in Bern is very high, or how the cost of living is very high

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    This is so stupid. Just fucking use numbers

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