https://ghostarchive.org/archive/Fqs7V

A group of Navy SEALs emerged from the ink-black ocean on a winter night in early 2019 and crept to a rocky shore in North Korea. They were on a top secret mission so complex and consequential that everything had to go exactly right.

The objective was to plant an electronic device that would let the United States intercept the communications of North Korea’s reclusive leader, Kim Jong-un, amid high-level nuclear talks with President Trump.

The mission had the potential to provide the United States with a stream of valuable intelligence. But it meant putting American commandos on North Korean soil — a move that, if detected, not only could sink negotiations but also could lead to a hostage crisis or an escalating conflict with a nuclear-armed foe.

It was so risky that it required the president’s direct approval.

For the operation, the military chose SEAL Team 6’s Red Squadron — the same unit that killed Osama bin Laden. The SEALs rehearsed for months, aware that every move needed to be perfect. But when they reached what they thought was a deserted shore that night, wearing black wet suits and night-vision goggles, the mission swiftly unraveled.

A North Korean boat appeared out of the dark. Flashlights from the bow swept over the water. Fearing that they had been spotted, the SEALs opened fire. Within seconds, everyone on the North Korean boat was dead.

The SEALs retreated into the sea without planting the listening device.

The 2019 operation has never been publicly acknowledged, or even hinted at, by the United States or North Korea. The details remain classified and are being reported here for the first time. The Trump administration did not notify key members of Congress who oversee intelligence operations, before or after the mission. The lack of notification may have violated the law.

The White House declined to comment.

This account is based on interviews with two dozen people, including civilian government officials, members of the first Trump administration and current and former military personnel with knowledge of the mission. All of them spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the mission’s classified status.

Several of those people said they were discussing details about the mission because they were concerned that Special Operations failures are often hidden by government secrecy. If the public and policymakers become aware only of high-profile successes, such as the raid that killed bin Laden in Pakistan, they may underestimate the extreme risks that American forces undertake.

The military operation on North Korean soil, close to American military bases in South Korea and the Pacific region, also risked setting off a broader conflict with a hostile, nuclear-armed and highly militarized adversary.

The New York Times proceeds cautiously when reporting on classified military operations. The Times has withheld some sensitive information on the North Korea mission that could affect future Special Operations and intelligence-gathering missions.

It is unclear how much North Korea was able to discover about the mission. But the SEAL operation is one chapter in a decades-long effort by U.S. administrations to engage North Korea and constrain its nuclear weapons programs. Almost nothing the United States has tried — neither promises of closer relations nor the pressure of sanctions — has worked.

In 2019, Mr. Trump was making a personalized overture to Mr. Kim, in search of a breakthrough that had eluded prior presidents. But those talks collapsed, and North Korea’s nuclear program accelerated. The U.S. government estimates that North Korea now has roughly 50 nuclear weapons and missiles that can reach the West Coast. Mr. Kim has pledged to keep expanding his nuclear program “exponentially” to deter what he calls U.S. provocations. Blind Spots

The SEAL mission was intended to fix a strategic blind spot. For years, U.S. intelligence agencies had found it nearly impossible to recruit human sources and tap communications in North Korea’s insular authoritarian state.

Gaining insight into Mr. Kim’s thinking became a high priority when Mr. Trump first took office. The North Korean leader seemed increasingly unpredictable and dangerous, and his relationship with Mr. Trump had lurched erratically between letters of friendship and public threats of nuclear war.

In 2018, relations seemed to be moving toward peace. North Korea suspended nuclear and missile tests, and the two countries opened negotiations, but the United States still had little insight into Mr. Kim’s intentions.

Amid the uncertainty, U.S. intelligence agencies revealed to the White House that they had a fix for the intelligence problem: a newly developed electronic device that could intercept Mr. Kim’s communications.

The catch was that someone had to sneak in and plant it. ImageKim Jong-un and President Trump sit at either end of a table with flags behind them. Mr. Trump and Mr. Kim met at the Metropole Hotel in Hanoi, Vietnam, in February 2019. Credit...Doug Mills/The New York Times

The job was given to SEAL Team 6 in 2018, military officials said.

Even for Team 6, the mission would be extraordinarily difficult. SEALs who were more used to quick raids in places like Afghanistan and Iraq would have to survive for hours in frigid seas, slip past security forces on land, perform a precise technical installation and then get out undetected.

Getting out undetected was vital. In Mr. Trump’s first term, top leaders in the Pentagon believed that even a small military action against North Korea could provoke catastrophic retaliation from an adversary with roughly 8,000 artillery pieces and rocket launchers aimed at the approximately 28,000 American troops in South Korea, and nuclear-capable missiles that could reach the United States.

But the SEALs believed they could pull off the mission because they had done something like it before.

In 2005, SEALs used a mini-sub to go ashore in North Korea and leave unnoticed, according to people familiar with the mission. The 2005 operation, carried out during the presidency of George W. Bush, has never before been reported publicly.

The SEALs were proposing to do it again. In the fall of 2018, while high-level talks with North Korea were underway, Joint Special Operations Command, which oversees Team 6, received approval from Mr. Trump to start preparing, military officials said. It is unclear whether Mr. Trump’s intent was to gain an immediate advantage during negotiations or if the focus was broader.

Joint Special Operations Command declined to comment.

The plan called for the Navy to sneak a nuclear-powered submarine, nearly two football fields long, into the waters off North Korea and then deploy a small team of SEALs in two mini-subs, each about the size of a killer whale, that would motor silently to the shore.

The mini-subs were wet subs, which meant the SEALs would ride immersed in 40-degree ocean water for about two hours to reach the shore, using scuba gear and heated suits to survive. Image A dark gray submarine crosses open water with a small vessel in the distance. A U.S. nuclear-powered guided missile submarine takes part in exercises near Okinawa, Japan, in 2021. A similar submarine transported a Navy SEAL team to waters off North Korea in 2019. Credit...U.S. Marine Corps, via Department of Defense

Near the beach, the mini-subs would release a group of about eight SEALs who would swim to the target, install the device and then slip back into the sea.

But the team faced a serious limitation: It would be going in almost blind.

Typically, Special Operations forces have drones overhead during a mission, streaming high-definition video of the target, which SEALs on the ground and senior leaders in far-off command centers can use to direct the strike in real time. Often, they can even listen in on enemy communications.

But in North Korea, any drone would be spotted. The mission would have to rely on satellites in orbit and high-altitude spy planes in international airspace miles away that could provide only relatively low-definition still images, officials said.

Those images would arrive not in real time, but after a delay of several minutes at best. Even then, they could not be relayed to the mini-subs because a single encrypted transmission might give the mission away. Everything had to be done under a near blackout of communications.

If anything awaited the SEALs on shore, they might not know until it was too late. The Operation Unravels

SEAL Team 6 practiced for months in U.S. waters and continued preparations into the first weeks of 2019. That February, Mr. Trump announced that he would meet Mr. Kim for a nuclear summit in Vietnam at the end of the month.

For the mission, SEAL Team 6 partnered with the Navy’s premier underwater team, SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 1, which had been doing mini-sub espionage for years. The SEALs boarded the nuclear-powered submarine and headed for North Korea. When the submarine was in the open ocean, and about to enter a communications blackout, Mr. Trump gave the final go-ahead.

It is unclear what factors Mr. Trump weighed when approving the SEAL mission. Two of his top national security officials at that time — his national security adviser, John Bolton, and the acting defense secretary, Patrick M. Shanahan — declined to comment for this article.

The submarine neared the North Korean coast and launched two mini-subs, which motored to a spot about 100 yards from shore, in clear shallow water.

Mission planners had tried to compensate for having no live overhead video by spending months watching how people came and went in the area. They studied fishing patterns and chose a time when boat traffic would be scant. The intelligence suggested that if SEALs arrived silently in the right location in the dead of night in winter, they would be unlikely to encounter anyone. Image Two boats at sea with mountains in the background. The coast of North Korea, pictured in 2018, is frequented by small fishing boats.Credit...Ed Jones/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

The night was still and the sea was calm. As the mini-subs glided toward the target, their sensors suggested that the intelligence was correct. The shore appeared to be empty.

The mini-subs reached the spot where they were supposed to park on the sea floor. There, the team made what may have been the first of three small mistakes that seemed inconsequential at the time but may have doomed the mission.

In the darkness, the first mini-sub settled on the sea floor as planned, but the second overshot the mark and had to do a U-turn, officials said.

The plan called for the mini-subs to park facing the same way, but after the second sub doubled back, they were pointing in opposite directions. Time was limited, so the group decided to release the shore team and correct the parking issue later.

Sliding doors on the subs opened, and the SEALs — all gripping untraceable weapons loaded with untraceable ammunition — swam silently underwater to shore with the listening device.

Every few yards, the SEALs peeked above the black water to scan their surroundings. Everything seemed clear.

That might have been a second mistake. Bobbing in the darkness was a small boat. On board was a crew of North Koreans who were easy to miss because the sensors in the SEALs’ night-vision goggles were designed in part to detect heat, and the wet suits the Koreans wore were chilled by the cold seawater.

The SEALs reached shore thinking they were alone, and started to remove their diving gear. The target was only a few hundred yards away.

Back at the mini-subs, the pilots repositioned the sub that was facing the wrong way. With the sliding cockpit doors open for visibility and communication, a pilot revved the electric motor and brought the sub around.

That was probably a third mistake. Some SEALs speculated afterward in briefings that the motor’s wake might have caught the attention of the North Korean boat. And if the boat crew heard a splash and turned to look, they might have seen light from the subs’ open cockpits glowing in the dark water.

The boat started moving toward the mini-subs. The North Koreans were shining flashlights and talking as if they had noticed something.

Some of the mini-sub pilots told officials in debriefings afterward that from their vantage point, looking up through the clear water, the boat still seemed to be a safe distance away and they had doubted that the mini-subs had been spotted. But the SEALs at the shore saw it differently. In the dark, featureless sea, the boat to them seemed to be practically on top of the mini-subs. Image Navy divers in scuba gear are seen underwater, one inside a mini-sub and one next to the mini-sub’s open hatch. A Navy mini-sub, known as a SEAL Delivery Vehicle, during a training exercise in 2007. Similar vehicles were used in the 2019 mission.Credit...U.S. Navy, via Department of Defense

With communications blacked out, there was no way for the shore team to confer with the mini-subs. Lights from the boat swept over the water. The SEALs didn’t know if they were seeing a security patrol on the hunt for them or a simple fishing crew oblivious to the high-stakes mission unfolding around them.

A man from the North Korean boat splashed into the sea.

If the shore team got into trouble, the nuclear-powered sub had a group of SEAL reinforcements standing by with inflatable speedboats. Farther offshore, stealth rotary aircraft were positioned on U.S. Navy ships with even more Special Operations troops, ready to sweep in if needed.

The SEALs faced a critical decision, but there was no way to discuss the next move. The mission commander was miles away on the big submarine. With no drones and a communications blackout, many of the technological advantages that the SEALs normally relied on had been stripped away, leaving a handful of men in wet neoprene, unsure of what to do.

As the shore team watched the North Korean in the water, the senior enlisted SEAL at the shore chose a course of action. He wordlessly centered his rifle and fired. The other SEALs instinctively did the same. Compromise and Escape

If the SEALs were unsure whether the mission had been compromised before they fired, they had no doubt afterward. The plan required the SEALs to abort immediately if they encountered anyone. North Korean security forces could be coming. There was no time to plant the device.

The shore team swam to the boat to make sure that all of the North Koreans were dead. They found no guns or uniforms. Evidence suggested that the crew, which people briefed on the mission said numbered two or three people, had been civilians diving for shellfish. All were dead, including the man in the water.

Officials familiar with the mission said the SEALs pulled the bodies into the water to hide them from the North Korean authorities. One added that the SEALs punctured the boat crew’s lungs with knives to make sure their bodies would sink.

The SEALs swam back to the mini-subs and sent a distress signal. Believing the SEALs were in imminent danger of capture, the big nuclear submarine maneuvered into shallow water close to the shore, taking a significant risk to pick them up. It then sped toward the open ocean.

All the U.S. military personnel escaped unharmed.

Immediately afterward, U.S. spy satellites detected a surge of North Korean military activity in the area, U.S. officials said. North Korea did not make any public statements about the deaths, and U.S. officials said it was unclear whether the North Koreans ever pieced together what had happened and who was responsible.

The nuclear summit in Vietnam went ahead as planned at the end of February 2019, but the talks quickly ended with no deal.

By May, North Korea had resumed missile tests.

Mr. Trump and Mr. Kim met once more that June in the Demilitarized Zone between North and South Korea. It made for dramatic television, with Mr. Trump even stepping across into North Korea. But the brief meeting yielded little more than a handshake.

In the months that followed, North Korea fired more missiles than in any previous year, including some capable of reaching the United States. Since then, the United States estimates, North Korea has amassed 50 nuclear warheads and material to produce about 40 more. Uneven Track Record

The aborted SEAL mission prompted a series of military reviews during Mr. Trump’s first term. They found that the killing of civilians was justified under the rules of engagement, and that the mission was undone by a collision of unfortunate occurrences that could not have been foreseen or avoided. The findings were classified.

The Trump administration never told leaders of key committees in Congress that oversee military and intelligence activities about the operation or the findings, government officials said. In doing so, the Trump administration may have violated federal law, said Matthew Waxman, a law professor at Columbia University who served in national security positions under former President George W. Bush.

Mr. Waxman said the law has gray areas that give presidents some leeway on what they tell Congress. But on more consequential missions, the burden leans more toward notification.

“The point is to ensure that Congress isn’t kept in the dark when major stuff is going on,” Mr. Waxman said. “This is exactly the kind of thing that would normally be briefed to the committees and something the committees would expect to be told about.”

Many of the people involved in the mission were later promoted.

But the episode worried some experienced military officials with knowledge of the mission, because the SEALs have an uneven track record that for decades has largely been concealed by secrecy.

Elite Special Operations units are regularly assigned some of the most difficult and dangerous tasks. Over the years, the SEALs have had a number of major successes, including hits on terrorist leaders, high-profile rescues of hostages and the takedown of bin Laden, that have built an almost superhuman public image.

But among some in the military who have worked with them, the SEALs have a reputation for devising overly bold and complex missions that go badly. Team 6’s debut mission, which was part of the U.S. invasion of Grenada in 1983, is a case in point.

The plan was to parachute into the sea, race to the coast in speedboats and plant beacons to guide assault forces to the island’s airport. But the SEALs’ plane took off late; they jumped at night and landed in stormy conditions, weighed down by heavy gear. Four SEALs drowned, and the rest swamped their speedboats.

The airfield was later seized by Army Rangers who parachuted directly onto the airfield. Image A black and white photo of troops on an airfield with an airplane in the background. U.S. troops monitoring the Point Salines airfield after the invasion of Grenada in 1983. SEAL Team 6’s debut mission, directed at the island’s main airport, went badly awry.Credit...Associated Press

Since then, SEALs have mounted other complex and daring missions that unraveled, in Panama, Afghanistan, Yemen and Somalia. During a rescue mission in Afghanistan in 2010, Team 6 SEALs accidentally killed a hostage they were trying to rescue with a grenade and then misled superiors about how she had died.

In part because of this track record, President Barack Obama curtailed Special Operations missions late in his second term and increased oversight, reserving complex commando raids for extraordinary situations like hostage rescues.

The first Trump administration reversed many of those restrictions and cut the amount of high-level deliberation for sensitive missions. A few days after taking office in 2017, Mr. Trump skipped over much of the established deliberative process to greenlight a Team 6 raid on a village in Yemen. That mission left 30 villagers and a SEAL dead and destroyed a $75 million aircraft.

When President Joseph R. Biden Jr. succeeded Mr. Trump, the gravity of the North Korea mission attracted renewed scrutiny. Mr. Biden’s defense secretary, Lloyd J. Austin III, ordered an independent investigation, conducted by the lieutenant general in charge of the Army inspector general’s office.

In 2021, the Biden administration briefed key members of Congress on the findings, a former government official said.

Those findings remain classified.

all 5 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Surprised any of this is being made public, but this has to be the dumbest fucking plan I've ever heard of. Id want more info on the device being placed, and how/where it had to be placed, but unless it needed to be physically wired into existing infrastructure, there are dozens of better ways to do this.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Seriously. Like they thought the shore was deserted and they completely fucking missed a boat with people waving flashlights around?

    All they had to do was look before approaching and be like, nope, there people there let's go.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I mean, they sent a fucking stealth submarine, in the dead of night... But they didn't equip it with a basic drone that could be deployed at the surface of the water to scout the area before surfacing?

    Also, why did you even use people? Is there a reason they couldn't have just done the mission completely autonomously, and make the equipment look like it was with Korean or Chinese in origin?

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Those Epstein files must really scare them to release all this stuff as a smoke screen.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    It contains the President, hundreds of Republican members of house/Senate, supreme Court Justice(s), and some of the largest political donors for the Republican party.

    They will do everything they can to distract from it, including killing civilians, committing war crimes, etc.

    They literally cannot afford to let the truth come to light. Everything, their power, their money, their freedom, their lives depend on keeping this secret

  • source
  • parent
  • 44 comments in c/world@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 59 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    I feel like many of the commenters below are missing the point, or didn't even read the article. It's not about incompetence by the SEALs (they weren't), it's Trump's incompetence. He basically ignored the restrictions his predecessors had put in place because they knew that using special operations for extremely high-risk operations (because they're likely to fail or be disastrous in the first place) was not something to be done lightly, but Trump, being Trump, just approved crazy operations without any clear thought.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    SEALs are not trump own special forces, they work for the US government

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I know. But unfortunately, the president is also the commander in chief of the executive branch, so he has the power to approve their operations.

    From what I understand, the military will suggest potential courses of action, but not all of them are good, which is where the president is supposed to use his wise judgment, if only he had it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago

    the SEALs punctured the boat crew’s lungs with knives to make sure their bodies would sink.

    These were trained monsters, one day they will retire and do something at home.

  • source
  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Considering the ongoing incompetence of Seal Team 6, I have wondered if they were supposed to bring back Osama Bin Laden alive, but completely botched the operation.

  • source
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Its just the reality of a modern standing military. The people who are going to sign up are a mixture of:

    1. Just looking for an excuse to kill, generally brown, people
    2. Rabidly patriotic
    3. I am trying to find a polite and non-ableist way to say this but... not good at learning?

    And "real" special forces (so not Rangers which are mostly just a badge they give anyone dumb enough to volunteer for an infantry combat role) kinda inherently have to be long term contracts/lifers. So not even the "I am gonna shoot a brown kid to get my college paid for" crowd.

    One of my guilty pleasures are the Insider "military expert rates BLAH" videos. And most are complete and utter bullshit from what is obviously a larper who had a desk job. But the more legit people consistently say insane shit like "Full Metal Jacket made me want to join the marines" or "The moment I watched that shower scene in The Rock, I knew I had to be a Navy Seal".

    Pilots were one of the last holdouts where it genuinely made sense for the best and brightest to do a tour or two to get the hours they need to get licensed. But even that is long gone as people realize the good jobs are still going to go to nepotism and the best they can hope for is to haul cargo to places nobody wants to actually go.

    But the military still insists on doing these high risk super low night flights with pilots who are inadequate and maintenance crews who "learn by doing" and so forth. Like, you know that mechanic who forgot to put the cap back on your buddy's oil filter? These are the people who didn't even think they could get a job doing that.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You forgot poorer people who can't otherwise afford higher education.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    No I didn't. Because I don't think that has been a significant source of recruits for... probably closer to two decades than not now. Kids know the military is a joke. They know they are going to be deployed to fight Wars For Oil (TM). NOBODY believes we did any meaningful good in Iraq/Afghanistan (which is actually a much more complicated discussion but...).

    So the kids who genuinely think they can change their lives with a college degree? They aren't the kids spending years of their lives killing other kids for a chance. If they are "smart" enough to think that then they are "smart" enough to realize all the consequences and how likely it is that the recruiter is going to lie to them.

    "I joined the military to go to college" is very much a Desert Storm and MAYBE early 2000s "trope". As we continued what was closer to a two decade forever war than not, the vast majority of people who would have come down on that thought process realized why it was a bad one.

    Which gets back to "I joined the military so I can learn to be a mechanic" and all the implications of that. Or "the army made my father the man he is today" and so forth.

    That said: I have worked with a few "skilled workers" who went the military route. And one or two of them are genuinely geniuses. They are also fucking terrifying the moment topics get even slightly "political" and it is very clear they fell into category 1 and 2 if you catch my drift.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah, you might be right. I don't have enough detailed knowledge and your argument makes sense.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    I don't think he's right. Personally, his comments rub me the wrong way. They remind me of the annoying, confidently incorrect comments I've see on Reddit so many times.

    Granted, I'm also fairly biased because I used to be in the army, and don't appreciate the kind of assumptions/generalizations people make about people in the US military. I bash the military all the time personally in my private life, but it's different when I see people who clearly don't know shit do it.

    I respect you for admitting there are things you might not know though.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I see no reason not to believe the official story in this case. Bringing him back alive would have served no useful purpose, and would have led to him getting a ton of publicity that would have only inspired his followers. Most Americans were likely happy to see him die the way he did given the 9/11 attacks.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 60 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    A North Korean boat appeared out of the dark. Flashlights from the bow swept over the water. Fearing that they had been spotted, the SEALs opened fire. Within seconds, everyone on the North Korean boat was dead.

    "Best military in the world"

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago

    They've been taught to shoot first check later for many decades. They know that anyone they kill will be marked as a combatant later - we're only hearing about this story at all because some Navy / intelligence staff involved want people to hear the story so they don't, "underestimate the extreme risks that American forces undertake."

    Now to me - a humble nobody - it sure seems that while the Seals did take risks of course (lives on the line) - they signed up and worked hard at the chance to take those risks. The far wider and more serious risk was igniting nuclear war or similar huge conflict with South Korea though no fault of the South Koreans. Fuck the "we need people to hear this so they know we're risking our lives" shit. People need to hear this because it's illegal and dangerous and shouldn't happen at all.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Everyone is focusing on trump (of course) or the "threat of nuclear war," but nobody seems to care that these were innocent people murdered by American soldiers.

    North Korea isn't going to do anything. I'm sure they care less about their civilians than we do.

    The fact we won't hold our government or military responsible for killing innocent people is disgusting.

  • source
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Never heard about this, would explain why the Trump - Kim love letters failed and their relationship soured

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Imagine if russia or china did the same thing...

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    And just before (probably the shit.justworks crowd...) come in to say this was an important thing to do and the reward outweighs the risk and blah blah blah:

    What actionable intel would have come out of this? North Korea is already a nuclear power. Any attempt to "remove that capability" is going to trigger China and Russia and World War 3. Seoul is only 15 miles from the DMZ, so about 17 or 18 miles from where North Korea can do whatever the hell they want. Finding out about a dirty bomb or even plans to rush the DMZ and lob a proper nuke isn't going to change anything.

    Which is a recurring theme in recorded history when it comes to Intelligence. I forget the phrase experts use, but it is the idea that, consistently, the highest risk and most "daring" efforts tend to provide the least actionable intel. Whereas just slipping someone a couple thousand bucks to tell you what they know is consistently the most effective method.

  • source
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Everyone wants to be 007 but the real world is more like a Le Carré novel. The work is tedious and often boring, if you find yourself in a ‘daring’ raid then something has gone real fuckin sideways in your intel gathering network.

    Besides, it’s not like the SK frogmen don’t already know every inch of that coastline with their eyes closed but keep their safeties on because of the Chinese response, so yeah why the fuck were our SEALs even there?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    And just before (probably the shit.justworks crowd...)

    Huh? What's your issue with my instance? How is shitjustworks pro-north-korea???

    This was a very fucking stupid idea, which is probably why Trump OK'd it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Your politics mod is batshit insane "pro military" and I've increasingly noticed political topics on dot world and the like getting shared around your /c/conservative and so forth mostly lining up with swarms of pro military rightwing jackasses.

    Very much seeming like it is a right wing dot ml. Not everyone is part of that crowd but... yeah.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    oh lol. ya the SJW politics group is the second of like 80 groups I blocked. Realized it was bad on very first touch. At least having it blocked for trillions of eons has made SJW feel like a lovely and calm instance.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    North Korea doesn't need nukes to level Seoul. They have artillery pointed at the city so in case a war starts they can just start firing. Some analysts think they could fire up to 10000 shells in just a minute. Even if the artillery will eventually get hit by air strikes they could cause a lot of damage.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Yeah... people tend to forget that modern artillery is actually in the 10-20 mile range to begin with. But that is really no different than "begin the invasion". It isn't like South Korea (and North Korea) aren't watching the other side 24/7.

    It is just that people usually use nukes as the exigent circumstances in a time like this. And I am going to specifically not speculate as to whether a nuclear bomb could be launched from behind the DMZ.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    The archive version is actually readable since it isn't a 'web experience'

  • source
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The lack of notification may have violated the law.

    Why do people keep saying this? Trump never cared about upholding any law, it's all inconsequential to him.

    Trump broke the law! Yeah, sure, and? He does that all day every day, that's not news anymore

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • 8 comments in c/politics@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] [S] 25 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Imagine what other risks this mofo is taking now that he's back in power.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Back in power with no fucking checks whatsoever. Free reign to do absolutely anything.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago

    Everything that bloated pedophile touches goes bad

  • source
  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I stopped respecting SEALs a long time ago. They’re badass no question - they’re also garbage human beings.

    Anyone who’d like to argue go ahead and read, “Alone at dawn” and then proceed to go fuck yourself.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    As an ex special ops soldier, I’m going to tell you that top military units are comprised of a mix of human types, just like any other batch of folks. Some great, some bad and everything in between. Any particular unit might be worse due to bad leadership, do bad things due to immoral commands, or from some vagary of luck have an overabundance of shitheads.

    All this to say, top units can have decent people in them with good intentions.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
    1 comment in c/hackernews@lemmy.bestiver.se view that post
    [–] 3 points 1 year ago