Australia and the West have experienced, hand over fist, improvements in GDP and living standards since we moved our manufacturing and resource extraction overseas*.

Even as the working class got sold out**, living standards improved across the board. The rich got richer and so did the middle class - with most Australians joining the middle class, during and, since the post-war era.

We were getting a good deal on our imports, taking more from poorer countries (Global South) than we gave in return, but that has been coming to an end.

The Global North (the First World) has monopolised trade with the Global South, by Capital and demand but also coercion and regime change, which ensured a good deal. But with the rise of the BRIX and China's Belt and Road initiative, the Global South has more opportunity for equal exchange of goods and services.

While the IMF used third world debt to influence policy change, allowing Western Capital to buy up and exploit industry, Chinese banks are forgiving debts and negotiating mutually beneficial agreements (to the benefit of China).

While Western Capital built limited infrastructure to extract a specific resource, China is investing in not just general infrastructure but education and the creation of a local workforce.

The Global South are trading with each other. They have more options, trade is more competitive - we get less of a deal.

Where previously Australia could afford to give Corporations absurd profits and still have money for the people, this will be less and less possible. Australia needs to re-embrace the policies of the post-war era, which ensured a dignified life, and roll back the last 50 years of neoliberal policy built for an age which no longer exists.

* Not just in the neoliberal era, but all the way back to the start of colonial expansion.

** With manufacturing moving overseas and the denationalisation by various Liberal -and some Labor- governments.

*** consent manufacturing became harder to enforce

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-49687-y

[2] https://ourworldindata.org/trade-and-globalization

[3] https://www.bu.edu/gdp/2021/03/08/bailouts-from-beijing-how-china-functions-as-an-alternative-to-the-imf/

[4] https://www.worldscientific.com/doi/10.1142/S2377740023500173

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[–] 23 points 1 year ago (37 children)

Per capita gdp has been dropping for years and productivity gains has been poor in general compared to our other western peers.

The big problem is consolidation of mega corporations that suck all the profits up from smaller businesses and take those profits overseas, paying no tax here,

That, and treating housing like a commodity and not a human right. We need to build more houses and tax large multinationals fairly.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago* (36 children)
  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (35 children)

    The per capital drops are not the fault of immigrants nor immigration. Immigration normally helps with productivity and gsp growth. As you say it's the only thing propping up the economy.

    Blaming immigrants is misguided and an easy way to foment racism, as per the march for Australia rallies today.

    If immigration drops suddenly, due to policy change or otherwise, we'll all be even worse off and could trigger an even worse recession.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago* (34 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    The per capita affects all aussies at all levels. Thats the problem. If it was just more poor immigrants, people would not be protesting. Immigration increases gdp, not reduces it.

    Most immigrants that come are working age without kids. The pay taxes but get very little out from their taxes. Some choose to stay, if they can, and have kids, but if so, those kids are aussies, not immigrants.

    It’s not crap about us needing skilled migrants for many industries. We don’t have all the skills we need. However, those skilled workers are also the ones earning more than average, paying more taxes and increasing per capita gdp.

    If we turn off the immigrant tap, our education system collapses, as it’s now dependent on exports. Our hospital system is also understaffed and underfunded, so it worsens. Our inflation is generally seen to be under control currently, although it is at risk. Prices won’t drop if inflation drops, prices drop in a recession. That’s what we will have. A housing crash is not how you make housing affordable, look at Ireland, USA, Greece. They’ve all had one, their housing is not affordable, those that couldn’t afford houses when out priced can’t afford them when there is no bank willing to lend.

    What will get worse? Our economy. It’s already in recession, except for immigration. So, we will go into actual recession. Those extra numbers propping up retail, gone. Those workers doing jobs aussies won’t, like farm work. Gone, food inflation, not easing.

    We don’t need lower immigration numbers. We need services for the number of people entering. New schools, new roads, new hospitals, more public transport and more medium density housing.

    So, don’t blame the immigrants, they are here from the policies of both sides of our political system. Blame the libs who didn’t want to,pay for those services and just wanted cheap labor,

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  • [+] -4 points 1 year ago (13 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    Just here for accuracy, paragraph 3 addresses your last paragraph and matches your tone rather elegantly.

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  • [+] -3 points 1 year ago (11 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (10 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (9 children)
  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (7 children)

    Right... calling your foolishness out in a Lemmy thread alongside everyone else hereabouts is really doing a number on the English language. Will someone please think of the dictionaries in lieu of calling out this racist POS?

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    You're blinkered by racist propaganda.

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  • [+] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Racist propaganda that is easily debunked.

    One claim which spread online was that Australia was bringing in 1,500 new overseas arrivals each day. That claim was advanced by some conservative media outlets and picked up traction online among some supporters of the rally. But Rizvi and Gamlen said the number was inaccurate, and a misunderstanding of migration figures. That figure, they said, referred to overseas arrivals and departures (OAD) data – which is more about tourist arrivals than migrants. Media and online commentary about the issue led the Australian Bureau of Statistics to last week issue a stern rebuke and fact check, saying the use of OAD data “does not reflect the official ABS definition of migration and may lead to inaccurate conclusions on migration”. OAD data “is a count of border crossings rather than migration. It is best used to understand patterns in traveller movements, such as tourism trends and seasonal travel,” the ABS said. The bureau noted that someone on a temporary visa, who travelled in and out of Australia multiple times, would count as a visitor several times “even though they only migrated here once”. Rizvi said the use of that number by migration critics was “nonsense”.

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  • [+] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Media and online commentary about the issue led the Australian Bureau of Statistics to last week issue a stern rebuke and fact check, saying the use of OAD data “does not reflect the official ABS definition of migration and may lead to inaccurate conclusions on migration”.

    I mean you walked onto your own intellectual landmine there; the cognitive dissonance is now your row to hoe. Given that burden there is little surprise in watching you devolve to emojis like every other nervous boomer caught in a lie. Also the the phrase was "Racist propaganda that is easily debunked," but we're not allowing reading comprehension to get in our way now are we?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    You're including Nazi talking points after the previous comment warned you about sounding like a Nazi.

    Nazi fuck, fuck off.

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  • [+] -2 points 1 year ago* (17 children)
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    it was the specific reference to established people not having as many children that is a common neo-nazi dog whistle, then you assert that immigrants are having 8 kids and living on government handouts. Anecdotally the only people I've ever seen having 8 kids and living of government handouts is Shazza down the road, true blue Aussie.

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  • [+] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (15 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Nowhere is really having that many kids. The planet is already at peak child and population worldwide will decline in the coming years.

    Most home grown Aussies are the children or grandchildren of immigrants. This country is born of immigration. Fuck GDP figures and just sing the national anthem to yourself.

    For those who've come across the seas, WE'VE BOUNDLESS PLAINS TO SHARE. With courage let us all combine to Advance Australia fair.

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  • [+] -3 points 1 year ago (13 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    No there isn't a difference, and you're massively racist to see one. You didn't even include western countries to seem impartial, you just hate that brown people exist in your country. Tough cookies bud, they're here, they're richer and smarter and more valued by society than you. It also probably won't change in your favour.

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  • [+] -1 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [+] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    No, that's you. Racist fucking boomer that causes problems for everyone, and has no solutions

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I was born here but my ancestory is not. My family sides have been here post boer and korean wars. While 1 side spoke English before arriving, the other side had no English but still contributed to society in a meaningful way. By your logic, I'm one of these new wave immigrant children but I bet if you came to my pub you couldn't pick me out.

    People migrate to Australia to give their kids a chance of a better future. This isn't people taking advantage of anything. These are families using services not different to any other resident. We all get childcare, healthcare, education, police, fire, etc, because generations before us decided it was the right thing for all Australians.

    The sadest part is the longer a family resides in this country, the lazier each generation tends to get. Safety nets are a blessing and a curse.

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I agree, vast influxes of people can be detrimental for a time including putting a strain on housing. I also agree immigrants are being used to score polical points. Immigrants are not the cause of the house crisis, bad policy has brought us to this point.

    The issues you have spoken about are not caused by immigration, sure immigration can put pressure issue or even make it worse but we should look at fixing the underlying issue rather than blaming people who weren't even in the country when the problem was created.

    We can fix the system.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Also, yes I agree there birthrate is higher in some parts of the world, particularly sub-Saharan Africa which has a large Muslim population. The number is dropping rapidly though.

    If you are truly interested in the rates, look up Hans Rosling and his talks about the changes in childbirth rates, mortality, etc. He passed away several years ago but his research is still valid and is a great indication of which direction the planet is moving. Spoiler: life is improving on most metrics for everyone on the planet.

    Stay positive my dude.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Tax the miners, and stop our corrupt politicians walking into fat mining jobs. We'd have everything with that one change.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Wages have dropped to one third in value in the past 50 years.

    It's wages.

    If this happened quickly we would say it's a crisis but because it's been slow it's been easy for employers to blame inflation for losses in living standards.

    Join a union.

    Meanwhile, Trump/maga are engineering a world economic crash. I suggest people cut costs, even if that means living with extended family, and save.

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  • [+] -5 points 1 year ago (9 children)
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Wages benefit workers. Inflation is affected by everyone's wealth. When the rich make record profits, inflation rises and our wages fall in value. When wages are increased, inflation rises and rich people's hoards fall in value. The key to successful economic policy is to raise wages faster than rich people's hoards can grow, thus making wage growth the primary driver of inflation. When hoard growth is the primary driver of inflation, we get our current situation.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Just to tag on to your point higher wages help to GDP and the economy as well by increasing consumption. If the top 1% are getting more money they tend to invest it in lower growth investments (safe investments and high end goods) decreasing the amount of money cycling through the economy. Where as lower incomes spend the increase wages on more goods and services from other people which puts the money back in to movement and increases the number of time the money cycles through the economy.

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  • [+] -2 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Japan, of course, doesn't exist.

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  • [+] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    They've been printing money for decades and have had to stave off inflation the whole time.

    Fuck off racist boomer

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 year ago

    Is the change in unequal exchange more impactful than Capital accumulation, etc. - I'd like to know. Either way, cost of living is not improving.

    I am interested in critical response on whether the increase in productivity will balance out the equalisation of exchange.

    But my, unsubstantiated, view is equalisation of trade will increase cost of living even with productivity considered.

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago* (5 children)
  • [–] [S] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    I am referring to unequal trade, - us getting more in return from the Global South (Asia, south america, Africa, etc.) for what we're giving them.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-025-59881-1

    https://globalinequality.org/unequal-exchange/

    This is true for our trade with China, but I am specifically speaking generally.

    "China’s exchange ratio with the Global North has improved over time. During the 1990s, the exchange ratio was on average 34 to 1. In other words, for every unit of embodied labour, materials, land and energy that China imported from the Global North, they had to export 34 units to pay for it. As of 2015, the ratio had declined to 4 to 1." https://progressive.international/wire/2025-04-18-china-unequal-exchange-and-the-present-world-historic-juncture/en

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095937802200005X

    Does that answer your question?

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  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [+] [S] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [+] [S] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago* (3 children)
  • [+] [S] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    not saying we should elect a dictator

    You've just found the problem with communism ;) when you centralise all resources under one man, it turns out people can be real power hungry dicks

    So your argument is we let things get worse, and be thankful of what we have.

    I don't really see things getting worse, with immigration rates going down and labor spending a ton of money on building houses and streamlining approvals I expect over the next 5 years house prices to cool, inflation has been going down as well, by all measures our economy is in pretty good shape

    Cool, chill, you do that buddy.

    tbh i can't ask for much more? I have pretty much everything anyone could want and I'm just a regular joe :S

    Is there something I should want? 2 overseas holidays a year?

    Australians travelling overseas again in record numbers despite the cost-of-living crisis

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-16/travel-tourism-australia-holiday-cost-of-living/104337072

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Agreed, still off topic. This really was meant to be a global economics piece, not a politics piece.

    Obviously I think more needs to be done on housing - end capt. gains discount for property, neg. gearing. But agreed.

    What do you is going to happen when the Americans wake up? I think both of us are going to get some replies.

    I might delete my comments. This was off topic

    Edit: My off topic comments have been removed.

    They were off topic and not conducive to the conversation. I regret getting off topic.

    Notifying you they have changed since your response.

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  • [+] -3 points 1 year ago (12 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (9 children)

    unless we have a recession, a biiiiiig one, with massive unheard of deflation of like 25-30% to get prices back to where they should be.

    I think you'll find that historically recessions/depressions allow the rich to get richer, as they can buy the assets cheaply that the poor have to sell off to stay alive.

    Unless you have a house, and cash and liquid assets now to let you live at least 10 years with no income, you won't last through what you wish for.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    To be fair, if you're already on unemployment, queuing up for bread isn't much of a change. It's the middle class who do have to sell of their homes that lose the most. If you already have nothing to lose, then nothing changes.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    the middle class who do have to sell of their homes

    Exactly. So, they become poor.

    I'm roughly defining anyone who 'owns a house, and cash and liquid assets now to let you live at least 10 years with no income' as who could survive financially, and anyone without that - welcome to the poor club.

    You know who the winners are.

    Why wish for that?

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  • [+] -1 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I don’t care if the rich get richer if that’s what it takes for the price of living to get better.

    Interesting. How does it help if the price of living improves, but you have no home, no job wnd you spent your assets on 'cheap' food and rent?

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    No, but I have empathy for those that will suffer the most.

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