All boxers, including Algeria's Imane Khelif, who won Olympic gold last summer amid scrutiny over a disputed failed gender eligibility test conducted by a different body, will be unable to compete without a test which reveals their biological sex.

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[–] 64 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Will the men also be subjected to gender testing?

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    So when do the men get their genitals inspected?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    In fairness, no one cares if a women wants to compete against the men generally. But yeah. Still dumb.

    Oh and the guys would probably be all for it. They be bragging the whole time no matter what they're packing.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Oh and the guys would probably be all for it. They be bragging the whole time no matter what they're packing.

    Like guys who drive big trucks... Guys who like to fight are likely compensating for something. I don't think they want people looking 🤣

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago

    Woman want to play sports? That's a probin'. For your protection

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  • [–] 144 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

    Horseshit headline. There isn't a genetic test that "reveals biological sex" because biological sex is not strictly genetic. That's why they stopped doing genetic tests in the 1980s.

    The headline should read "Competitors will participate in performative pseudoscience to appease bigots."

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    I'm honestly confused about what you're asserting here. For my daughter, they did a blood test on my wife in order to tell us that we're having a daughter instead of a son. Doesn't that mean that there IS in fact a genetic test that "reveals biological sex"?

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    So there's a relatively miniscule fraction of people who have unexpected outcomes that you wouldn't expect based on their genetics, e.g due to some unexpected hormonal activity during fetal development.

    For almost every birth, the biological concept of sex is a straightforward conclusion from genetics, so, by and large, a genetic test is accurate. But there have been cases that never got genetic tests and from all assessments were biologically female, but find out later they had XY. Maybe because they never hit puberty, or while trying to diagnose infertility, but something drove a deeper look.

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  • [+] 13 points 1 year ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The 1.7% figure is generally considered inaccurate, with most of that 1.7% being anomolous, but not out-right counter to the genotypic sex. LOCAH can cause infertility/reduced menstrual cycles as well as excessive body hair or balding in women, but wouldn't generally be considered phenotypically male. The second biggest one is a male having their urethra open in the wrong spot, which while anomolous, is certainly not going to make someone think they should be considered to be sexed female just because their penis has the hole in the wrong place.

    The syndromes more like one would expect, like AIS, amounts to somewhere around 0.02% to 0.05%.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    That was pretty much from Wikipedia, so I'm not innately that aware, just felt like reading the article and summarizing.

    When it comes to sports and gender, it seems kind of weird to me that foe the most part we only care about that one biological distinction as a discriminating factor when there's so many other biological advantages/disadvantages in play.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That "relatively miniscule fraction" is over-represented in sports, as the hormonal edge cases of humanity can end up being stronger/faster/bigger than the typical humans.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Possibly true, but it would be good to have a source for that.

    But even if true, what genetic factors should and shouldn't count? If someone is clearly female to all observers but happens to have XY genes, how is that different from an XX female who has an abnormally high amount of testosterone but still appears female for all intents and purposes?

    I'm basically saying it's a complicated problem that laymen like us without specialized knowledge should consider very carefully and possibly defer to experts' opinions.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Well frankly, there's a whole can of worms to be had about how people should be categorized. A different league for distinct height ranges? Different leagues based on ACTN3? There's a whole bunch of uneven biological factors that competitors had no control over, should gender be the only one so broadly recognized?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Almost every sport does actually have only "women" and "free for all" categories, very few have a "men" only one.

    And it usually exists only because otherwise there simply would be no female competitors. One example is chess - the three best women have world rankings of #143, #250 and #271.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    Sky News is trash. Surely a better publication has covered this story.

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  • [+] 47 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    As a trans woman — Sports is such a contentious topic for me.

    On the one hand, I want us to be treated fairly and not separated from our cisgender sisters.

    On the other hand, male puberty is a motherfucker and can absolutely give real, permanent athletic advantages that can never be fully reversed.

    That said if a trans woman went on blockers and never went through male puberty, I see no reason to stop her from competing.

    People are so polarized on this. No one allows any space for details and nuance, but those things matter just as much as the broader principles and ethics of the issue.

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  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)
  • [–] [M] 19 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    They aren't. The female boxer everyone bitches about was, in fact, born female.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/articles/cye0ex43k63o

    "Khelif has always competed in the women's division and is recognised by the IOC as a female athlete.

    "The Algerian boxer was born female, was registered female, lived her life as a female, boxed as a female, has a female passport," IOC spokesperson Mark Adams said on Friday.

    "This is not a transgender case. There has been some confusion that somehow it's a man fighting a woman. This is just not the case. On that there is consensus, scientifically this is not a man fighting a woman.""

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/false-accusations-surrounding-olympic-boxer-highlight-debate-around-gender-and-sports

    "Mark Adams, Spokesperson, International Olympic Committee:

    The Algerian boxer was born female, was registered female, lived her life as a female, boxed as a female, has a female passport. This is not a transgender case.

    William Brangham:

    Amid the attacks, Khelif's father came to his daughter's defense.

    Amar Khelif, Father of Imane Khelif (through interpreter): This is our official family document, May 2, 1999, Imane Khelif, a female. It is written here. You can read it. This document doesn't lie. The people who are lying and leading a fierce campaign against her are the enemies of God. The attacks against her are immoral, it is not fair.

    Imane is a little girl that has loved sport since she was 6 years old."

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [–] [M] 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    You aren't allowed to spread transphobic lies about people. Do it again and you'll be banned. This is a warning.

    Edit You know what? Fuck it. 1 day old account from lemmy.club? An instance that gets trolls all the time? Banned.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago*

    Why can't you refer to people as transgender/trans-women in this discussion? You want to take the position that its unfair competition, fine we can talk about that. But when you refer to all transgender women as "males" you just come off as a troll or an asshole. That's why people are downvoting you, not because we all love seeing women getting beaten up...

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