The vast majority of Israelis say they are not troubled by reports of famine and suffering in Gaza, a new poll released by the Israel Democracy Institute shows.

The survey shows that 79 percent of Jews in Israel were not troubled, or troubled at all, whereas 86 percent of “Arab” respondents were somewhat or very troubled by the reports about the war on Gaza.

The survey was conducted between 27-31 July.

top 73 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 53 points 1 year ago

Dehumanization of the enemy is part of what enables genocidal actions.

  • source
  • [–] 50 points 1 year ago

    Yes, poll after poll has shown this. Israelis by and large are behind the genocide. They're okay with it they approve of it and they like it. They're not being forced to murder an entire people. They're gleeful about it.

  • source
  • [–] 97 points 1 year ago (37 children)

    yeah a nation of mostly Zionists would think that, wouldn't they?

  • source
  • hideshow 37 child comments
  • [–] 66 points 1 year ago* (36 children)

    A nation of mostly fascists. Zionism is about the creation of a religious nationalist ethnostate through genocide.

    It's pure unbridled fascism, and Israelis have been indoctrinated to believe it's okay when they do it since birth, as has a significant proportion of the Jewish diaspora. That's why the genocide continues, and why Israel is the most dangerous threat to Jewish people since Nazism.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 36 child comments
  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Not quite. Zionism is about creating a secular nationalist ethnostate through genocide, with religious dressing simply as a way to get more religious Jews on board. It's no coincidence that early Zionist leaders were all unapologetically atheist.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I think there’s been a pretty significant divergence from the original Zionist leaders to modern day Zionism. The seeds were there, obviously, but things have deteriorated even further in the past few decades.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    What meaningful divergence is there? Since the 19th century, Zionists such as Herzl were discussing means to ethnically cleanse the local populace via economic domination.

    In practice, Zionists starting coming in droves armed, aiding the British in committing atrocities and suppressing Palestinian dissent and resistance. Then during the Nakba, they would straight up rape, murder, and rob the Palestinians.

    Is the divergence in Zionism similar to that of Nazism, where the initial good peacenik Nazis simply wanted to peacefully relocate Europe's Jewish population to madagascar? Are we going to act like the very pursuit of an ethnostate is not problematic in and of itself?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    To be charitable I think our fellow poster meant that Zionists went from at least some modesty to a full embrace of revisionist Zionism. To further the Nazi analogy, it would be like going from Italian fascism to Nazism.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    You're probably right. I don't think they meant any ill. If anything, I made my words a bit harsh because I was fed a similar myth growing up. Sometimes you need a new direct and visceral perspective to see something in a new light. We need to be as ruthless towards Zionism on an ideological basis as we are towards Nazism.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    That's not true. Zionism originates from the Jewish scriptures. Basically, Judaism talks about how Jews were promised by God, via the scriptures and the old prophets, the land of Israel as a homeland. It is the duty of Jews to resettle the holy land and establish a theological society that is based on the divine laws and systems laid out in the Torah. By doing so, Jews would achieve salvation for themselves, and eventually for the rest of the world. This global salvation will be marked by global harmony and the coming of the messiah who will guide the world in the path of God.

    Virtually all Jews agree that Israel is their homeland and that they will eventually reclaim the holy land and settle it in a way that would bring salvation as they await the coming of the Messiah. Traditionally Zionism was seen as something that is out of human control and is entirely up to God's will. Essentially Jews will go back to Israel when God wills it and people have no say in the matter, any attempt by humans to accelerate the salvation is seen as blasphemous as it's an act of rebellion against God's will.

    That's when modern Zionism split. Modern Zionists believe that political and secular Zionism is a tool given by God to enact his divine plan and to initiate the return of Jews back the land of Israel. Therefore following this type of Zionism is actually following God's will and it's the duty of religious Jews to pursue it.

    Obviously, there's a great deal of debate among Jews about which theological branch is correct, but either way, the origins of Zionism aren't purely secular or nationalist.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Modern Zionists believe that political and secular Zionism is a tool given by God to enact his divine plan and to initiate the return of Jews back the land of Israel.

    Early modern Zionists (including Herzl himself) overwhelmingly didn't believe in God in the first place.

    Obviously, there's a great deal of debate among Jews about which theological branch is correct, but either way, the origins of Zionism aren't purely secular or nationalist.

    You should look up Theodor Herzl. Early Zionists were straight up voting on whether they'd build their Jewish state in Palestine or Uganda, and the vote was pretty narrow if I'm not mistaken. The rationale for choosing Palestine was that it'd be easier to get religious Jews (which the guys who were thinking up this stuff were absolutely not) on board. Like, do you think Ben Gurion or Golda Mier were having theological debates?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    But this is separate from what I'm talking about. I'm specifically talking about the origins of the idea itself. It's undeniably based in Jewish religious scriptures. That's where the idea comes from even if modern Zionism evolved to be something different.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Russia gave them a completely autonomous oblast to settle and build years before that vote, but they didnt like the area. Same lattitude as northern japan. No war needed. No people to displace. self rule written into the constitution of Russia. Yiddish offiical language. But they didnt like the area so they left it empty. They could go there now and have an israel 2 if they wanted. They dont want that area because its not their biblical favorite area. All this genocidal behavior was a choice they made. They already had a "homeland".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast

    “If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.” Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s "Ben-Gurion").

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    I will never claim that all jews are bad because Israel is fucked up, nor will I ever claim that all catholics are bad because of the Spanish Inquisition or all muslims are bad because of the terrorists. It is true that not all people who follow those religions are bad.

    However, one cannot deny the religious motivations. They are doing this because they believe that their sky daddy promised them that land, just like the catholics who did commit the inquisition believed their sky daddy wanted a pure catholic europe, and the racidal muslims believe their sky daddy wants to punish unvelievers/misbelievers.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 16 child comments
  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (16 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (15 children)

    This is just ignorant. There's only 14 million Jews in the world and 90% of them either live in the US or Israel. If there were 1.9 billion Jews like there were muslims, for example, we would start seeing a bunch of different states that act very differently from other. I think most people can agree that Iran under the Mullah regime and Afghanistan under the Taliban are evil, but at the same time, there are also islamic countries like Albania and Kazakhstan that are pretty normal. Trying to judge all Jews off the actions off of the actions of Israel, it's like judging all muslims off of the actions of Pakistan or all Christians off of the actions of Brazil. It's just silly.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 15 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    It's ignorant to call out dumbasses who believe in fairy tales? Okay then, haven't seen this sort of Zionist propaganda before

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    No, there's a difference between being critical of a religion and judging an entire religious demographic on the actions of a particular state.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Nah, if you believe in mumbo jumbo you bet I'll judge you as a less intelligent being. If you believe in some unprovable being that's being used as a scapegoat for genocide you're no better than the people committing said genocide

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago

    I'm not defending religion here. I'm with you on that. I'm just saying that it's wrong to generalize an entire demographic for the action of a specific entity that has little to do with them. Israel =/= Jews or Judaism. Again, this is like judging all 1.9 billion muslims for the actions of the Taliban. It's fine if you want to be critical of Judaism or islam or any other religion, it's also fine if you want to be critical Israel or Afghanistan or any other state, but judging an entire demographic for the actions of a state just because of their religion? Now we're starting to get too close to bigotry territory.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    ah the old hasbara run-to. anytime you get weak, run back to pretending Israel represents all of judaism, and any criticism of what israel is doing is "antisemitic" which just means racist-- which is the most common thing in the world. But your racism always gets a pass. I get pretty tired of that nonsense. Why is universal human rights such a problem for zionists? Why do Palestinians have no rights?

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    I think most people can agree that Iran under the Mullah regime and Afghanistan under the Taliban are evil,

    I dunno, I dont see Iran committing genocide and ethnic cleansing.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    Funny you say that because they’re actually doing both in Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon, Iran itself, and until very recently, Syria as well

    <quoted from user Gorilladrums, laying an accusation of genocide and ethnic cleansing on Iran. Copying before he deletes his post or it gets taken down for being misinformation>

    oh my, they are committing genocide and ethnic cleansing in 4, maybe 5 places right now!!!

    Bold claims. Well you know how making bold claims works. Show us the data, if you arent just making that up from your hasbara-fevered imagination.

    edit: your comment is removed, gorilladrums but I'll still wait for your reply on this one. Go ahead, redeem yourself. Show us you werent lying.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    So your evidence of ethnic cleansing across 5 countries, of jews of course-- is a wikipedia page of the quds force and an article saying that someone said "damn the jews". huh. More lies and misinformnation from you, as usual.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I was right about you after all, you're just a troll

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] [M] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Iran is not committing Genocide. That's not to say they don't WANT to or would if they could, they absolutely would, but nothing on the scale that Israel is doing.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago*

    No, you're just entirely wrong. Iran is in fact committing both genocide and ethnic cleansing. Iran does it's foreign policy through proxies, similar to Russia with Wagner, as it gives them plausible deniability when they face backlash. Iran isn't exactly discrete with this either, they have an entire military branch called the Quds force that was specifically created and designed to conduct asymmetrical warfare. The Quds force has a very long and well documented history, where they fund, arm, train, and provide intelligence for proxies that are willing to do their bidding (source).

    This isn't exactly new either, they've have been doing this since the 80s. Iran's major proxies in the Middle East have ALL conducted campaigns of genocide and ethnic cleansing against Druze, Baha'is, Christains, Jews, Mandaeans, Alawites, and Sunnis(especially Kurds). Here's a very brief list of examples:

    • Yemen - The Houthis have successfully ethnically cleansed the Jews out of the country (Source 1, source 2). Just go read what's on their official flag, and that will tell you all you need to know (source). They've also been doing the same to Baha'is (source)

    • Lebanon: Hezbollah has been trying to ethnically cleanse its Druze minority for decades now from massacring entire villages to launching rockets at Israel from Druze towns (so when Israel retaliates, it'll land in their towns and kill them) to trying to create inter community violence and the list goes and on. (source). They've also been going after the Sunni minority in the country where they chase them out of their towns and neighborhoods (source)

    • Syria: The Fatemiyoun Division and the Zaynabiyoun Brigade have been notorious in ethnically cleansing Sunni and Christian Syrians from their towns (Source 1)

    • Iraq: Proxies like Kata’ib Hezbollah, Asa’ib Ahl al-Haq, Badr Organization, and a bunch of others are notorious for persecuting Sunnis, especially Kurds (Source 1, source 2). They also worked alongside ISIS to persecute Christians in the name of islam and also under the guise of anti-ISIS operations even though it was textbook ethnic cleansing(source)

    • Iran: Things in Iran are so bad that the OHCHR literally put out a 30 page report as a part of their Independent International Fact-Finding Mission program that explains how Iran has been persecuting and ethnically cleansing Kurds, Baluchis, Ahwazi Arabs, Azeris, Baha’is, Yarsanis, Christians, Jews, and bunch of other minorities. In the report they found that the Mullah regime used excessive and often lethal force disproportionately against minorities in their provinces (including massacres like “Bloody Friday” in Zahedan in 2022). The regime conducted mass arrests targeting minority activists, journalists, and religious leaders, where a lot of them were kidnapped and denied due process. The victims suffered beatings, electric shocks, sexual violence, and psychological abuse, alongside threats to their families. Religious minorities such as Baha’is, for example, faced home raids, property confiscation, school expulsions, and arrests, while Yarsanis and Sunnis had restrictions on their religious practices. The Kurds and Baluchis even had their gatherings, festivals, and publications banned, and they're being punished for speaking their languages in public. Jews in the country have also been rounded up, arrested, and punished in mass over baseless accusations of them being Israeli spies. The regime's explicit goals for all of this is to make Iran more "islamic", that's textbook ethnic cleansing and cultural genocide (source).

    I'm actually from Iraq and I come from a Mandaean background. I've literally seen this shit first hand, I've seen these very groups and how they have terrorized people, how they have cleansed entire communities, how they keep the country broken and corrupt, and how they carry out Iran's interests. We used to be a community of around 60,000 in 2003, and now there's only a couple of thousand left in the country at best. The Mandaean community is literally facing extinction now (source). Mandeans mostly lived in the south of the country where the population is mostly Shia and Arab, so the ethnic cleansing didn't happen by the hands of ISIS or the Kurds or the Sunnis nor was it the Americans. After the 2003 war, Iran propped their proxies and they unleashed hell on the country, especially for its minorities where they were forced to flee, including my own family. My family went through hell and is now scattered all over the world and, and now some random Lemmy Mod is going to tell me that what family went through is misinformation? Give me a break.

    Also, Israel is not the standard for what ethnic cleansing or genocide is, and it's beyond ignorant to try to frame something a topic this complex and big around a single point of reference. Not only is it not the only ethnic cleansing going on right now, but by ignorantly dismissing other conflicts by not comparing to this one, you're spitting on the victims and all the suffering they're going through. If you want to voice some disagreement, sure, whatever, that's your right. But what you're doing here is enforcing your ignorant and misguided.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Source on genocide being included in Zionism theory?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Technically it's not explicitly about genocide, but here's the big guy on the topic:

    As to al-Khalidi concerns about the non-Jewish majority population of Palestine, Herzl replied rhetorically: "who would think of sending them away?"

    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl

    Again, this isn't technically a genocidal idea in and of its own (though still crime against humanity stuff), but implementing it would inevitably wade pretty deep into genocide territory, as seen in the Nakba.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    This seems to be a weak source.
    I have found a detailed article that claims that while the historical Zionism did mention relocating non-Jewish people, killing them was only a fringe opinion among ultra-nationalist religious people. But this opinion has been spreading with every major conflict until those extremists got power in the current government and was further accelerated by the October 7 attack. https://theconversation.com/in-israel-calls-for-genocide-have-migrated-from-the-margins-to-the-mainstream-250010

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    As I said, Herzl wasn't explicitly calling for total extermination here, but what he was calling for could only happen via genocide. This is why the Nakba included so many bloody massacres (which, yes, those constitute a genocide).

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    People seem to forget that when it came to Nazi rhetoric, the Nazis initially claimed they just wanted to "move the Jews".

    There's a reason why the concentration extermination camps were called "The Final Solution" and not "First Attempt at creating an Aryan haven!"

    For anyone curious, here's a website where you get to guess whether a quote is from a Nazi or Zionist: https://zionism.wtf/#zionist-or-nazi

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    https://imeu.org/article/what-leading-israelis-have-said-about-the-nakba

    Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895

    The property owners will come over to our side. According to my conception, the majority of the local population will have to be transferred elsewhere.

    We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country. - Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895

    Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly - Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    oh I see, zionists were going to take the land peacefully, You are claiming that was the plan? Shall I show you quotes from zionists about how they thought about that?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    Not sure about peacefully, ethnic cleansing is a crime in any case, but it's a notch down genocide. That's why I was curious if the early theoricians mentioned something akin to it or not. So far, it seems they didn't.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago

    They've been conditioned over the decades to consider them to be subhuman. I'm not saying that they are innocent, just that this is what they believe. Their propaganda is so effective that they no longer feel remorse for killing them as they see them as savages or monsters. In fact, they see themselves as the heroes of the story. And with every western country backing them up and giving them more weapons, what else would they think?

  • source
  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    When I went to Israel last time I was genuinely surprised how many zealots there are. Most Israelis you meet outside of the country are just normal people but Israel itself is still full of mentally deranged. Religion is a hell of a drug.

  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    If you really mean Israelis outside of Israel and not just Jewish people, that's probably just code shifting. They know their opinions aren't acceptable outside their bubble, so they keep quiet. It's the same way a white supremacist will talk differently if they think any random white guy shares their views vs when an imposing minority is in the room.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • My long-time ex was Jewish, can confirm. They were alright but their zionist relatives absolutely dropped some fucking bombs (proverbial, probably literal now) during family gatherings. The mildest was the tired old "part of being a good Jew is supporting Israel" ranging up to "Palestinians are subhuman and should be exterminated". Mind, this was over twenty years ago and the situation has demonstrably escalated since.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I think it's a little different. The Israelis who actually live or travel outside of Israel tend to usually be the educated, open minded ones. They're usually the ones who want a two state solution and oppose wars. The whackos tend to stay in Israel. Not all Israelis are whackos, but all the Israeli whackos stay in Israel. It's kind of like how the Americans who travel or live abroad tend to be liberal, but the MAGA types never even leave the country.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    So how come there are tons of Israeli groups abroad from Israel who push zionist propaganda?

    They need to renounce their bullshit faith or be ready to take in the backlash. It's all made up (all religions), anyway, and if one can't see that they really don't deserve to procreate on this earth

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean some do and some don't. It's the same as any other nationality. Israelis aren't a monolith.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The reason for this is that Israel has a lot of ultra orthodox Jews, and they can be pinpointed as THE source of the insanity inside the country. They don't contribute economically, they're always calling for wars and violence but they refuse to participate in the military, they throw tantrums when anything doesn't go their way, and they're always trying to coerce society to be more religiously extreme.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    Yeah it's so disappointing to see a culture being held hostage by extremists. It's almost like west Asia can never fucking escape these zealots ruining it for everybody.

    As someone wirh west Asian roots I wonder how incredible the region would be without religion.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    Dehumanisation succesful.

  • source
  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Propaganda still works to this day

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yep. The Nazis were people just like anyone else who gained the consent of the population. We learned nothing.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    They’re inundated with propaganda (like we all are), and they can’t face the fact that their own government is committing such horrors. Plus, they just don’t want to think critically about the situation.

    None of that excuses them, but simply writing them off as “evil” doesn’t help.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago

    Israel is a extremely racist nation and Palestinians are just "human animals" and even "vermin" to most Israelis.

  • source
  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    No, they probably even enjoy those reports.

  • source
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Yes they're demons. We know.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Don't call fascists demons. They're people. Any people can go fascist when the circumstances are right. This "fascists are demons, not reasonable people like us" attitude breeds complacency and an unwillingness to look directly at what fascism is and how it arises and functions, and that's part of the reason fascism has come back to bite us hard.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    No, soulless ghouls with a lack of empathy and compassion for others are not people.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I feel like you missed the point of their comment.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I didn't.
    Even though i agree with them i commented in anger and frustration.
    Happens 🤷‍♂️

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Yup. The other day, I made an angry comment about an environmental issue. Somebody replied with a sarcastic “congrats, you solved it”. Solving it wasn’t what I was trying to do. I was just venting.

    We all need to do that sometimes.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Rephrase the question, "Do you fear the consequences of facing trials after the war, similar to how the nazi enablers did?"

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago*

    That fear depends on a real threat of someone holding them accountable and being able to bring them to trial. Which country or countries would be willing and able to do this? The Nazis were unafraid until defeat started to loom as a real prospect.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    The chances of that happening are pretty much nil. Not as long as the US keeps supporting them and even if they stop supporting tjem, Israel has nukes.

    The only way it could happen is if there was a push for accountability from the population of Israel but polls like this shows that's not gonna happen either as the population supports this.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›
    8 comments in c/worldnews@lemmy.ml view that post
    5 comments in c/world view that post
    2 comments in c/palestine@lemmy.dbzer0.com view that post