From comp.os.minix, January 29, 1992

Andrew Tanenbaum argues that Linux's monolithic kernel design is outdated. Torvalds responds, and an extraordinary debate about operating-system architecture follows.

Other sources:

https://www.linfo.org/obsolete.html

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.minix/c/wlhw16QWltI

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[–] 36 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

The down votes are because of the stupid clickbait title

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

    Yup. But it's also the title of the Usenet thread so... ;)

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  • [–] 10 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

    Linus "my first, and hopefully last flamefest" Torvalds

    This signature is even funnier with the benefit of hindsight.

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  • [–] 17 points 5 hours ago* (8 children)

    The debate was interesting, and AFAIK the Linux kernel of today is kind of a mix between the 2 philosophies.

    Sad to see this downvoted, it is an interesting aspect of Linux history, but I think maybe the headline should have reflected that, instead of looking like a statement of fact, which it definitely is not.
    A parallel attempt to Linux at designing a micro kernel by the GNU team, has completely failed to gain traction.

    What made Linux succeed however, is the adoption of the GNU license, this is what made the huge difference back in the day IMO. A community project that would always remain a community project.
    And the Linux desktop today is what it is because the GNU license protected the integrity of Linux. AFAIK 80+% of the Linux desktop is based on GNU licensed code.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 hours ago (4 children)

    I agree, the title should've been a question with a brief description.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 hours ago (3 children)

    Or like in Hacker News, they put the date when it's old stuff (something like "Linux is obsolete (1992)")

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  • [–] 6 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

    The debate back then was already Tanenbaums fight against his own Minix' obsolescence.

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  • [–] 8 points 5 hours ago (1 child)

    As I understand it Minix was quite popular among the scholars it was designed for.
    But Tannenbaum wouldn't make it "free", although it did come for free with the book and you could get the source code for free. It was not licensed to enable further developments by users.

    I stand by my claim that the problem was 100% the license. If Minix had used the GNU license, chances are pretty good that Minix could have become what Linux is today.

    But of courser there are other factors, like how Linux worked with GNU, which was already a nearly finished OS that just lacked a kernel. So adding the 2 together and voila you had a complete OS.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 hours ago (7 children)

    Argued. Decades ago. And now? Who does even remember Tanenbaums' "Minix"?

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  • [–] 8 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

    There is an opinion that nowadays Minix is more widespread than Linux. Minix is used in microcontrollers, CPU firmwares, in many other places. It is just hidden in blobs that end-users don't tinker with.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 hours ago

    Statistics schmatistics. Like sure, one can say that Minix is used in microcontrollers and all around the world and thus the usage ratio between Linux and Minix is about 3% vs 98%; but one could also argue that these microcontrollers and firmwares are not actually "used" by someone, they are just middleware and accessory just in the same way we don't count count LED headlights separately for tallies on driving (and pedestrian) culture, and then we can firmly say that ratio is now 3% to ~0%.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 hour ago (1 child)

    Inhowfar it can be actually called MINIX in there. If you have a minimalistic 8-bit processor working as a boot processor for an Intel or AMD CPU, they don't implement features like virtual memory down there.

    I believe it is more like a MINIX-ish system down there.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

    Me. I set up a minix system a couple years ago.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 hours ago

    Why can't they just duel or something. Keyboard fencing. Mouse throwing. Vim beeping...

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  • [–] 5 points 5 hours ago

    For people downvoting, if you actually read it, you'll understand it's not what it looks like. It's a piece of history, not an opinion.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 hours ago (1 child)

    yeah the micro vs monolithic debate has been going on for a long long time. so far monolithic has won out usage wise.

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