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[–] 27 points 1 year ago

Free thinker: "Okay the US lies about a lot of things, but they're definitely not lying to us about communism. Why would they even do that"

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Free thinkers can also say "communism is good."

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    [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I hear that it's bad.

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  • [+] -14 points 1 year ago (52 children)

    Now do this meme with any country in Eastern Europe that actually has experienced communism after ww2. Bonus point if you pick one where the USSR has placed their troops to "prevent regime change instigated by foreigh agents and protect the people from a civil war".

    Slavic brothers came to aid us with their tanks. Lol.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago

    Meanwhile in the real world

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  • [+] 32 points 1 year ago (51 children)
  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago

    I cant speak for the chinese, but the data presented in the first article for czech republic is wrong.

    I do not mean to discredit any poll in that article as i am sure we could be throwing polls at each other all day and it would be pointless.

    Instead lets have a look at our parliament who the people actually voted for:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_the_Czech_Republic

    Communists dint make it into the government. But oh look. There arent even any communist MPs in the opposition.

    How is this possible that there are no communist MPs when there are 200 seats in the parliament? Odd. It must be because there isnt a communist party.

    Weird. There is one.

    It just didnt score a single fucking seat. How is that possible when a majority of the people want the regime back?

    Seems like "a majority of the people want it back" claim is simply incorrect. Despite what your little article says.

    I just hope you tried to mislead people accidentally.

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  • [+] -4 points 1 year ago (50 children)
  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    Polls shows that 71% of Brazilian population wants 5 day work week instead of 6, Brazilian people voted for a bunch of centrist/right wing fuckers that doesn't want to end the 6 day work week. What people wants and what people vote is not always the same for a bunch of reasons.

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  • [+] 19 points 1 year ago (23 children)
  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    What of the soviet union? We were never part of the Soviet Union. We were just occupied by it's soldiers. (Oh no, did they really do that? That was not nice.)

    There is no Soviet Union to bring back for Czech people. The poll is refering to the communist regime in Czech Republic.

    Turns out only ca 3% of the voters wanted the communist party to have a say in how the country should be run and didnt win any seats.

    Sad trombone noises

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  • [+] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [+] -9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    See this is why I didn't want to throw polls at each other. Now I made you click one link deeper into your article and suddenly the graphic in the first poll where it says 45% people say they are better off now and 39% say they are worse now turned into a statistic where 28% say they were better off in the past regime and 23% say they are better off now.

    Which one is the irrefutable one you are talking about. I'm confused.

    Maybe its better to stick with the election results they aren't as easily misrepresented.

    Only really naive people from countries that never experienced the "beauty" of communism can support it.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Only really naive people from countries that never experienced the “beauty” of communism can support it.

    People already showed you several polls, of people who currently or previously experienced communism, which say otherwise, so why are you still posting nonsense like this?

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago

    It is not nonsense. I am merely saying that a gradual 35 years long decline in the number of people voting for communists in my country since the fall of the previous regime indicates that the claim "a majority of the people want the USSR back" is false in my country.

    Also that this steady decline of 35 years which resulted in 0 seats in the parliament for the communist party is more indicative of the feelings that the poeple hold towards communism than a 14 years old poll conducted on 600 residents.

    Is that too far fetched?

    It is even weird to include the poll in an article about the people wanting the USSR back because (drumroll) we were never part of the USSR. We were just occupied by it.

    (And noone wants foreign occupying soldiers back.)

    People here seem to enjoy being able to travel again. They do not experience shortages of goods. And no one is sacking them from their jobs or preventing them from studying because they arent members of the communist party. The above mentioned phenomena were common in the last regime.

    I have the benefit to compare both the communist era in my country as well as what came after the revolution. And so has my entire generation. Which is the reason why communists have 0 seats in parliament here.

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  • [+] -14 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    no, that's him showing you reality and you rejecting it.

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  • [+] 15 points 1 year ago (18 children)
  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    what we can say is that in reality, ppl aren't voting for the communists, even if a poll from 2011 shows that 28% of 623 Czechs said they preferred it under Communism. A very similar 23% say the exact opposite, and 17% aren't sure. the rest don't answer.

    the poll doesn't really show anything of substance, but you USE IT as a way to try and manipulate ppl into thinking Eastern Europe wants Communism back.

    it's disingenuous.

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  • [+] 16 points 1 year ago (16 children)
  • [+] -12 points 1 year ago (15 children)
  • [+] 11 points 1 year ago (15 children)
  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago* (14 children)

    it's an old meme.

    point is, you're too divorced from reality. but neither of us will change our position, so just forget it and move on.

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  • [+] 13 points 1 year ago (14 children)
  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    they are having the intended effect. you reveal the thinness of your position, and the absurdity of how you cling deriving large claims from a tiny poll from 2011 rather than the repeatable, impactful, society-wide "polls" that happen regularly called elections.

    THAT'S how you're divorced from reality, JUST TO START.

    the fact that you can't see that, and consider your position even remotely serious, is why this conversation isn't worth the time.

    ppl who are the fence should know what kind of a crackpot you are, and it's not because you're a communist.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The fact that you just keep doubling down here is absolutely hilarious. Just take the L and move on bud.

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  • [+] -5 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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  • [+] 11 points 1 year ago* (9 children)
  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    lol they're not on the fence, mate. XD you know that. it's your tankie buddies. you live in an echo chamber. me popping by is me popping into that bubble.

    listen man, again, you're just gonna keep carrying on. the point was made, for anyone new to your sell.

    you support authoritarians and draw specious conclusions from old, small, cherry-picked data while ignoring the real world happening around you.

    that's it. you're happy with with all this.

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  • [+] 10 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    i'm not trying to convert anyone. you are. which you do constantly.

    but for any reader who pops by, and the OP where this began before i interrupted your usual spiel, to know right away what you are.

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  • [+] 9 points 1 year ago (7 children)
  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    again, you're being upped by the choir, mate. i wouldn't puff my chest out about that.

    but dude, the point is, get it all out clear in the open. that's all.

    you love the gulags and the authoritarians. just lead with that. i'd find it much more honest than what you do now.

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  • [+] 9 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    this is coming up better in the other thread, so lets continue to focus there.

    as for who i do this for, it's always for the pursuit of and elucidation of truth, for myself and for any who may find it useful in their own lives.

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  • [+] 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    i would but i already don't trust you from our last attempt at this. that needs to be addressed first.

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  • [+] 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    i'm not going to overly commit if i think you're full of shit, deluded and/or acting in bad faith.

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  • [+] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    except i'm not trying to do any of what you seem to be accusing me?

    the whole point is to get more of the truth out, wherever it lands.

    i'm not the ideological one. you are.

    this is nothing more than a social interaction.

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  • [+] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    well, my intention today was not to question communism or defend capitalism. it was a contention that you were being disingenuous.

    and while i still don't agree with some of your conclusions in how you use your data, i am softened in my assessment of you.

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  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago

    See this is why I didn’t want to throw polls at each other. Now I made you click one link deeper into your article and suddenly the graphic in the first poll where it says 45% people say they are better off now and 39% say they are worse now turned into a statistic where 28% say they were better off in the past regime and 23% say they are better off now.

    Which one is the irrefutable one you are talking about. I’m confused.

    Maybe its better to stick with the election results they aren’t as easily misrepresented.

    Only really naive people from countries that never experienced the “beauty” of communism can support it.

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  • [+] -13 points 1 year ago* (26 children)
  • [+] 17 points 1 year ago (26 children)
  • [+] -15 points 1 year ago (25 children)

    this is the kind of reply where you undercut your own work. be better.

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  • [+] 15 points 1 year ago (25 children)
  • [+] -12 points 1 year ago (24 children)

    i didn't complain about you being a communist.

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  • [+] 15 points 1 year ago (24 children)
  • [+] -12 points 1 year ago (23 children)

    no i did not, but this is your usual washing away of the actual critique of your support for authoritarianism.

    we've already done this dance, but thanks for proving the point for the new onlookers.

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  • [+] 16 points 1 year ago* (23 children)
  • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (22 children)

    thankfully, i know plenty of Communists in reality that aren't terminally online tankies, or i'd completely give up on Socialism.

    Tankie (noun): a person who ties themselves in knots so they can feel good about supporting authoritarian despots while wearing a red scarf.

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  • [+] 12 points 1 year ago (22 children)
  • [+] -9 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    all you've shown is that you lack reading comprehension.

    no one needs your approval or vetting, and you don't define what a Leftist, Communist or Socialist is.

    yes, i'm "biased" against authoritarian despots.

    it's not a lazy ad-hominem, it's exactly what you are. you love despots that gulag ppl. you love that shit. just say it. Stalin, Mao, Kim dynasty, you love them.

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  • [+] 12 points 1 year ago (14 children)
  • [+] -12 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    it already worked. you are what you are. you show it every time you are pushed.

    you love despots that gulag ppl. you love that shit. just say it. Stalin, Mao, Kim dynasty, you love them.

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  • [+] 11 points 1 year ago (8 children)
  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    lol now THERE'S projection and ad hominem. you're worse than i originally feared. that's incredibly sad.

    ok, all done here then.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Why do all you people talk in the same cringey pseudo-Joss Weadon loser speak?

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  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    don't even know what you're talking about.

    here are all your .ml "fence-sitting" buddies to pile on now, Cowbee.

    this is so predictably tedious.

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  • [+] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    no, because in your previous comment you became a tantruming child.

    not everything is about you being a communist. XD are you seriously just fishing for persecution? come on, man.

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  • [+] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    ugh. look, let's just focus on the other thread, ok? seems more productive. we need to wrap this up.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The US literally has a higher incarceration rate than China or than USSR did under Stalin, but do go on. Really highlighting the quality of your intellect here.

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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    thanks, we're not talking about that right now. also, don't let cowbee see your ad hominem, he really hates that.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    No we are literally talking about that right now because you're braying about gulags here. Also, learn what ad hominem is if you're going to use it. Ad hominem would be me saying your argument is wrong because you're an imbecile. I'm addressing your argument directly on its own merits while highlighting the fact that you are in fact an imbecile. It's perhaps too subtle a difference for you to grasp given the limitations.

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  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    as for your "points," they're not points, just you declaring a bunch of bullshit. that's why they're not addressed.

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  • [+] 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    it's not an ad hominem, for goodness sake, get it right. it's not an attack on your person or character.

    i consider what you said non-sequitous poppycock. i reject your statements out of hand.

    "all states are authoritarian." this is the kind of vacuous nonsense you create to support your paradigm.

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  • [+] 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    it's not an anti-communist pejorative. it's an anti-authoritarian pejorative. but for you, it's the same, because you're an authoritarian who supports other authoritarians as long as they are red.

    look, saying "all states are authoritarian" is something YOU assumed. you'd need to prove that first before we even get to anything else.

    socailist thought, political parties, gatherings, etc, can all exist in liberal democracies. that's not the mark of authoritarianism.

    i suspect you will say they exist to the extent that they are not a threat to the capitalists, but will be crushed if they were to actually gain power.

    then i'd say you'd still need to prove that also, but first, how about getting a populace to actually vote for your views and win elections before crying foul.

    whereas in an authoritarian state, straight to the gulag or shot. ie. Stalin, Mao, Kim, your heroes.

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  • [+] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tankie

    not that UD is some kind of godly authority, but in my experience this is the common historical meaning, specifically in contrast of other communists. if ppl use it to deride all communists, i can't speak to that, but it would not be accurate. as i've said, i associate with non-tankie and former tankie Commies.

    you never acknowledge this and prefer to wash it all away by claiming it's an empty slur against all Commies, which is pretty divorced from the overarching context.

    re: authoritarian states

    you didn't prove it, you made a claim and presented evidence.

    i am not yet convinced of your (Marxist) claim that "all states are elements of class oppression, and that whichever class controls the state oppresses the rest."

    if i were anti-communist, i'd just tell you. but you are correct that i am not communist, nor socialist. not yet at least, mostly due to tankies. we've had this discussion before, i don't particularly want to drag this on.

    re: practice

    then why not learn from the failings of the USSR, DPRK, PRC in their human rights violations? that would make we take your position more to heart, because when you can't do that, it makes everything else you say empty, because you remain inhuman in your willingness to oppress others.

    red boots, blue boots, still boots.

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  • [+] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    re: tankie

    i don't do any of that, but that is your go-to response for the term.

    this has come of my lived experience of interacting with you. it has been what you have put forth to me in your full-throated support of, as you say, AES states.

    NOW, having said that, if you have some examples to show me of your nuanced critique of the human rights abuses of these authoritarian states, i'd actually love to see them. they did not come up in our last interaction. maybe they will change my view of you and of your brand of communism.

    re: authoritarianism

    we have interacted in the past, and of course you wouldn't recall. no reason you would, and that's totally ok. but you are active enough i'm sure you realize that ppl remember you.

    i'm ok with being anti-communist if that is indeed what i am. but because i am actively inquiring into Socialist thought to see if i can be Socialist, it's just not a category i am sure of yet (either pro/anti communism, socialism, insert-Leftist-ideology-here, etc). i do know i am anti-authoritarian, and that will not change.

    re: critique

    "I find that it's usually Marxist-Leninists that are the most critical of AES along genuine lines, as we've done the due dilligence of sepparating fact from fiction so we can learn what went wrong and what went right."

    i've heard you say this before. it strikes me as a bit hubristic and if i were you i'd remain concerned about the accuracy of reports/data from AES states, same as i don't trust the US's opinion of itself.

    nevertheless, i remain open and interested in what you can present of this.

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  • [+] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    "Does that satisfy, or are you just going to endlessly move the goalposts?"

    don't do this. do you want to de-escalate or not? stay on topic.

    is it satisfactory? not really, but i don't expect you to dump a treatise on a chat board.

    i want particular looks into political persecutions in these states, cults of personalities, corruption and abuse of powers, imbalanced relationships between Russia and other USSR states, treatment of Uyghurs, China's social cred system, these kinds of items.

    i do NOT expect you to address any of these items here, and i'm not asking you to.

    you will say that my views are tainted by biased capitalist propaganda. if that's true, where would you suggest i go to get information on these topics? mind you, i will look very askance at anything that is coming from a socialist echo chamber, since they will also have their own biases.

    re: authoritarianism

    i hear what you're saying. good thoughts.

    re: critique

    yes, this is much better. deeper, more nuanced.

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