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Western media don't lie! --libs (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[+] -10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

it's not an ad hominem, for goodness sake, get it right. it's not an attack on your person or character.

i consider what you said non-sequitous poppycock. i reject your statements out of hand.

"all states are authoritarian." this is the kind of vacuous nonsense you create to support your paradigm.

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  • [+] 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)
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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    it's not an anti-communist pejorative. it's an anti-authoritarian pejorative. but for you, it's the same, because you're an authoritarian who supports other authoritarians as long as they are red.

    look, saying "all states are authoritarian" is something YOU assumed. you'd need to prove that first before we even get to anything else.

    socailist thought, political parties, gatherings, etc, can all exist in liberal democracies. that's not the mark of authoritarianism.

    i suspect you will say they exist to the extent that they are not a threat to the capitalists, but will be crushed if they were to actually gain power.

    then i'd say you'd still need to prove that also, but first, how about getting a populace to actually vote for your views and win elections before crying foul.

    whereas in an authoritarian state, straight to the gulag or shot. ie. Stalin, Mao, Kim, your heroes.

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  • [+] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)
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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tankie

    not that UD is some kind of godly authority, but in my experience this is the common historical meaning, specifically in contrast of other communists. if ppl use it to deride all communists, i can't speak to that, but it would not be accurate. as i've said, i associate with non-tankie and former tankie Commies.

    you never acknowledge this and prefer to wash it all away by claiming it's an empty slur against all Commies, which is pretty divorced from the overarching context.

    re: authoritarian states

    you didn't prove it, you made a claim and presented evidence.

    i am not yet convinced of your (Marxist) claim that "all states are elements of class oppression, and that whichever class controls the state oppresses the rest."

    if i were anti-communist, i'd just tell you. but you are correct that i am not communist, nor socialist. not yet at least, mostly due to tankies. we've had this discussion before, i don't particularly want to drag this on.

    re: practice

    then why not learn from the failings of the USSR, DPRK, PRC in their human rights violations? that would make we take your position more to heart, because when you can't do that, it makes everything else you say empty, because you remain inhuman in your willingness to oppress others.

    red boots, blue boots, still boots.

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  • [+] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    re: tankie

    i don't do any of that, but that is your go-to response for the term.

    this has come of my lived experience of interacting with you. it has been what you have put forth to me in your full-throated support of, as you say, AES states.

    NOW, having said that, if you have some examples to show me of your nuanced critique of the human rights abuses of these authoritarian states, i'd actually love to see them. they did not come up in our last interaction. maybe they will change my view of you and of your brand of communism.

    re: authoritarianism

    we have interacted in the past, and of course you wouldn't recall. no reason you would, and that's totally ok. but you are active enough i'm sure you realize that ppl remember you.

    i'm ok with being anti-communist if that is indeed what i am. but because i am actively inquiring into Socialist thought to see if i can be Socialist, it's just not a category i am sure of yet (either pro/anti communism, socialism, insert-Leftist-ideology-here, etc). i do know i am anti-authoritarian, and that will not change.

    re: critique

    "I find that it's usually Marxist-Leninists that are the most critical of AES along genuine lines, as we've done the due dilligence of sepparating fact from fiction so we can learn what went wrong and what went right."

    i've heard you say this before. it strikes me as a bit hubristic and if i were you i'd remain concerned about the accuracy of reports/data from AES states, same as i don't trust the US's opinion of itself.

    nevertheless, i remain open and interested in what you can present of this.

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  • [+] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    "Does that satisfy, or are you just going to endlessly move the goalposts?"

    don't do this. do you want to de-escalate or not? stay on topic.

    is it satisfactory? not really, but i don't expect you to dump a treatise on a chat board.

    i want particular looks into political persecutions in these states, cults of personalities, corruption and abuse of powers, imbalanced relationships between Russia and other USSR states, treatment of Uyghurs, China's social cred system, these kinds of items.

    i do NOT expect you to address any of these items here, and i'm not asking you to.

    you will say that my views are tainted by biased capitalist propaganda. if that's true, where would you suggest i go to get information on these topics? mind you, i will look very askance at anything that is coming from a socialist echo chamber, since they will also have their own biases.

    re: authoritarianism

    i hear what you're saying. good thoughts.

    re: critique

    yes, this is much better. deeper, more nuanced.

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