As two physicians who have independently questioned many of the conventional recommendations surrounding nutrition and metabolic health, we have a fascinating conversation about what led us to rethink what we were taught in medical school and what the research actually tells us about the foods we eat. Dr. Berry shares his personal journey from struggling with obesity and prediabetes to discovering low-carb nutrition and the carnivore diet. We discuss the limitations of traditional diabetes dietary recommendations, the influence of food industry sponsorship on nutrition guidelines, and why so many doctors receive surprisingly little education about nutrition.
We also dig into some of the biggest controversies in nutrition, including plant-based versus animal-based diets, whether grains and carbohydrates are really necessary for optimal health, and what happens when we look beyond the headlines of published nutrition studies. We take a closer look at research involving plant-based diets and type 2 diabetes, the importance of sustainable dietary changes, and why calorie restriction and short-term improvements don't necessarily tell the whole story.
generated summary
Medical training and a failed conventional diet
- Lies My Doctor Told Me [1] centers on nutrition advice repeated by physicians and the role of confirmation bias in making repeated dietary assumptions feel certain.
- Dulaney moved from long-term plant-based cardiology toward carnivore eating after developing health problems, challenging entrenched dietary beliefs.
- Berry graduated in 2000 after a half-semester nutrition class with 175 students; its predominantly plant-based instructor implied he had type 1 diabetes and used steel-cut oats and whole-grain pasta as examples of managing it.
- Residency, emergency-room shifts and convenience food coincided with Berry reaching 297 lb and an HbA1c of 5.9, creating a conflict between his own health and the weight-loss advice he gave patients.
- Ninety days of following an American Diabetes Association diet handout and jogging two or three times weekly coincided with an increase to 300 lb and an HbA1c of 6.1, motivating a change in dietary approach.
- Robert Atkins's Diet Revolution, Mark Sisson's The Primal Blueprint and Loren Cordain's The Paleo Diet [2][3][4] introduced low-carbohydrate approaches absent from Berry's medical-school instruction.
Plant-based beliefs and medical authority
- Berry's earlier diet was roughly 70–85% plant-based, with lean meat, reduced-fat dairy and fewer egg yolks. He also promoted blueberries as having "magic in plants" despite lacking evidence for that belief.
- A couple planted three blueberry bushes after Berry's community lecture, an example of nutrition advice affecting patient behavior even without a scientific basis.
- Dulaney's former plant-based diet was influenced by animal welfare, John Robbins's Diet for a New America [5], saturated-fat concerns and fears of animal-derived toxins. Her household garden did not produce enough vegetables to sustain her.
- Food-industry sponsorship of nutrition organizations adds a source of bias to conventional dietary guidance.
- Presumed comprehensive medical expertise is the central misconception: physicians lack complete nutrition and health knowledge, while strong patient trust can contribute to harmful advice.
- Medical instruction contains errors and uncertainty, captured by Berry's professor warning that half of the instruction could be wrong; clinical knowledge requires revision and candor about gaps.
- Nutrition research spanning archaeology, anthropology and non-English scientific literature expands the evidence available beyond English-language dietary research.
- USDA food-composition data [6] list zero vitamin C for red meat, in some cases by assumption, while Nordic, Japanese, European and British tables include roughly 1–3 mg in a substantial meat serving; extensive cooking reduces this amount.
- Medical professionals have an obligation to investigate nutrition evidence before giving confident advice; false answers delivered in professional practice can constitute "lies".
Grains, family history and food identity
- Grains are used to fatten farm animals yet are widely perceived as wholesome human staples, embedded in family customs, poverty diets, religion and inherited beliefs.
- Berry's great-grandmother lived mainly on cornbread and beans and died of pellagra, a B-vitamin deficiency, despite her community's positive view of that homegrown diet.
- Dulaney previously attributed her grandmother's diabetes to lard while giving less attention to bread, dumplings and sugar, illustrating the selectivity of dietary beliefs.
- The effects of Esselstyn's plant-based cardiac program cannot be isolated from accompanying changes in smoking, exercise and body weight; the effects of kale alone remain uncertain.
Diabetes research, hunger and sustainability
- A 24-week randomized trial involving Brenda Davis combined a whole-food plant-based diet with provided meals, exercise and classes during the first 12 weeks; weight and HbA1c improved during the early phase [7].
- By week 24, early changes in glucose, insulin, HOMA-IR and cholesterol were no longer maintained. Animal products and junk food returned as eating became less restricted, with hunger and renewed satiety central to the explanation.
- Hunger and eating until full are normal physiological functions; wild mammals eat their typical diets to satiety. Restricting intake can cause short-term weight loss but is difficult to maintain with persistent hunger.
- Ancel Keys's Minnesota starvation experiments documented food fixation and psychological distress during sustained underfeeding; energy restriction can temporarily reduce body weight and blood glucose [8].
- Virta Health's five-year ketogenic diabetes follow-up included ongoing participation, weight loss and reduced diabetes medication with carbohydrate restriction [9].
- Dulaney sought an egg-like sandwich made from tofu during her plant-based years; animal-food imitations can coexist with cravings for familiar animal foods and their nutrients.
Surrogate cholesterol outcomes and coronary interventions
- Short-term reductions in cholesterol on a Portfolio Diet do not establish long-term effects on mortality or heart attacks; LDL and total cholesterol are surrogate outcomes.
- Stent placement is influenced by clinical practice and procedural incentives, limiting its value as a health outcome. Sham-controlled stenting trials [10] subsequently tested benefits of coronary intervention; earlier preventive stenting could include 30–50% blockages.
- Bypass grafts on moderately narrowed arteries can fail, and a high number of bypass grafts or stents does not necessarily indicate full resolution of coronary disease.
- In a recent three-diet trial covered by JAMA, a ketogenic diet reduced liver fat and improved metabolic measures more than Mediterranean and very-low-fat plant-forward diets at similar weight loss [11]. Carbohydrate intake, not dietary fat, is the central dietary explanation for fatty liver here.
Lipid panels, HbA1c and individual physiology
- Dulaney's total cholesterol rose from approximately 180 to 315 and then 407 mg/dL after adopting a very-low-carbohydrate, meat-heavy diet; her LDL was 278, HDL 125 and triglycerides 52, consistent with a lean-mass hyper-responder pattern.
- A 10-year ApoB–HDL cardiovascular-risk study [12] linked higher HDL with a weaker association between elevated ApoB and cardiovascular events, supporting combined interpretation of HDL, triglycerides and ApoB.
- Low triglycerides, high HDL, fasting insulin near 3–7, HbA1c below 5.7 and normal hs-CRP form a metabolic profile in which ApoB, LDL and total cholesterol carry little risk significance.
- Dulaney's HbA1c remained 5.9 with fasting glucose around 110, insulin 3, C-peptide near 1 and negative autoimmune diabetes antibodies, a pattern inconsistent with adult-onset autoimmune diabetes.
- Glycated albumin tests were no longer available through Berry's laboratories, while Dulaney's fructosamine was normal despite an elevated HbA1c.
- Red blood cells normally circulate for roughly 110 days, and longer survival of about 115–125 days, potentially from less cell damage, could allow more glycation and a mildly elevated HbA1c in some lean carnivores even when fructosamine and insulin are low.
- The dawn effect can temporarily increase glucose on waking through cortisol and adrenaline; checking glucose one or two hours later can yield a lower value.
- Ketones differ between individuals and circumstances: Dulaney's rise with more fat or running, while Berry has values around 0.5–0.7 mmol/L after a three-day fast and his wife can exceed 2 after a brief meal delay. Isolated ketone or glucose readings are an incomplete metabolic picture.
References
- [01:03] Lies My Doctor Told Me — https://drberry.com/products/lies-my-doctor-told-me
- [07:26] Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution — https://books.google.com/books/about/Dr_Atkins_Diet_Revolution.html?id=Cp-ozwEACAAJ
- [07:32] The Primal Blueprint — https://www.primalkitchen.com/pages/primal-blueprint
- [07:35] The Paleo Diet, Revised Edition — https://thepaleodiet.com/the-paleo-diet-revised-edition/
- [13:45] Diet for a New America — https://redwheelweiser.com/book/diet-for-a-new-america-9781932073546/
- [19:01] USDA FoodData Central — https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/
- [30:07] A whole-food, plant-based intensive lifestyle intervention improves glycaemic control and reduces medications in individuals with type 2 diabetes: a randomised controlled trial — https://doi.org/10.1007/s00125-024-06272-8
- [34:00] The Biology of Human Starvation (Volume I) — https://www.upress.umn.edu/9780816672349/the-biology-of-human-starvation/
- [34:33] 5-Year effects of a novel continuous remote care model with carbohydrate-restricted nutrition therapy including nutritional ketosis in type 2 diabetes: An extension study — https://doi.org/10.1016/j.diabres.2024.111898
- [38:01] Percutaneous coronary intervention in stable angina (ORBITA): a double-blind, randomised controlled trial — https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(17)32714-9
- [39:48] Effect of diet macronutrient content on the cardiometabolic response to weight loss: A randomized clinical trial — https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2026.07.020
- [41:47] Interplay of HDL cholesterol and apoB and the risk of incident atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease in UK Biobank — https://doi.org/10.1093/eurjpc/zwag400
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