Parties can absolutely change with enough pressure.

I've been alive long enough to watch the Republican party almost completely change. Yeah, they were always stupid assholes. But they were not even close to THIS crazy and traitorous. Their base changed them. The liberal base can change the Democrat party.

The Democrat party is ESTABLISHED. No 3rd party is even remotely close to being established. It is not the time yet to vote for a 3rd party and won't be until a 3rd party actually gets serious and starts winning smaller elections.

This exactly. It's nonsense to say that the party can't change because it has changed.

I think it can be ship of theseus’d, just replace all the key people in the party and keep the name.

At this point it's easier to just nuke it

Dems will become the second nazi party before it becomes a socialist party. You saw the lip service to Bush.

Bingo.

actually follows through with his campaign promises

Don't count on it. Not for any bad reason, just that things are harder to implement than campaign promises, whether it's city council in the way or just practicality.

I'm just saying he can be a success without implementing all of his campaign ideas.

I wish I could.

I'm expecting Hope and Change 2.0. Mamdani is almost certainly going to quickly be informed of how wealthy he and his kids can be and turn his back on New Yorkers if he gets elected, just like Obama.

If they cared about victory, you'd be right. But it's becoming pretty clear they care far more about money. If they're paid to lose anyway, this tactic is utterly useless.

That'd require progressives to have something resembling spine. Good fucking luck.

Have you paid attention to how european countries with various election systems (some non-garbage) are voting?

don’t threaten me with a good time. (fully aware that a revolt is not a good time)

Lol.

Americans are too pussy to violently revolt. If it was going to happen it would have already happened.

So the next, actually realistic option, is to change the Democrat party by primarying the shit out of the reps that won't get onboard with what liberals want.

How do I know this is possible? Because conservative voters just did it to the Republican party over the last decade or two.

I believe this is definitely a place to focus. In my area there isn't even enough candidates to fill the democratic party primary ballot, people on this platform bitching need to run for office instead of just whining about it (myself included)

If you mean our government, hard agree.

Let me borrow a quote (paraphrase) from Rumsfeld: You build a society with the people you have, not the people you wish you had or may have at some future time

(Feel free to credit that directly to Rumsfeld. It'd piss him off.)

All nations are peopled with selfish and self-serving apes. We've always depended on sociological tricks to get them to function within the social contract, but it does mean those with more power tend to try to hoard it, and the mechanisms we used to curb that were all captured and broken.

We can build a better society, but it will mean either violently seizing the property of those in power, or threatening them with an even greater violence that could ruin all they value. General strikes have been effective sometimes in Europe, but it's think-outside-the-box time.

Since we don't have a salted hydrogen bomb, I got nothing personally, but I haven't stopped thinking about it.

You cannot reform the United States of America because at it’s core it is a capitalist and imperialist country that will always put corporate interests over human interests.

I mean, did you ever reform the USA to be anything but that?

Yes, the USA is a capitalist and imperialist country at its core. Half the planet wants it dead, the other half look at it with disdain. Nothing short of going back to the drawing board will save a country built on genocide, land theft and staging coups and waging wars worldwide

David Hogg won a legitimate party election to become vice chair because he was popular and then was removed by tje DNC for having the wrong ideology.

They have shown us many times they will not allow themselves to change

Exactly. We need to fix the entrenchment, and we can fix this stupid two party system.