"I have been watching the debate about Flock with a little bit of puzzlement," says Andrew Guthrie Ferguson, a law professor at George Washington University.

"Because real-time crime centers have not just ALPR cameras and sensors, but video analytics and drones and essentially a way to create a visual single-pane-of-glass vision of what's going on in a city, with time machine capabilities where you can go back and investigate crime."

Tools like Axon Fusus, which is a leader in this type of software, also pull in footage and data from police body cameras, law enforcement dashcams, 911 dispatch, gunshot detectors and surveillance cameras, including sometimes those of private businesses that opt in.

As Flock battles public scrutiny, other police surveillance companies see an opening

Its use is growing fast. In 2024, the technology news site 404 Media reported that just over 100 law enforcement agencies had deployed Fusus, which was then its own company and was acquired by Axon that year. The number of law enforcement agencies using the tool has more than doubled since then, according to Axon.

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[–] 34 points 1 month ago (12 children)

I keep saying this...

Making Flock the focus ignores everything else like cellphone stingrays.

We need to be pushing back on surveillance, not just Flock

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  • [–] 17 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    On the flip side: Flock is giving people awareness of other surveillance creepware.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago

    Except people are just upset about Flock and remain largely ignorant of other methods, again, like cellphone stingrays.

    During the process of forcing connections from all compatible cellular devices in a given area, the StingRay operator needs to determine which device is the desired surveillance target. This is accomplished by downloading the IMSI, ESN, or other identifying data from each of the devices connected to the StingRay.[14] In this context, the IMSI or equivalent identifier is not obtained from the cellular service provider or from any other third-party. The StingRay downloads this data directly from the device using radio waves.[19]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker

    To make people aware of those, we need to stop talking about just Flock and draw the line at "every use of surveillance needs a warrant".

    People don't realize how much we've lost since 9/11, this is a chance and we need to capitalize on it and claw back as much ground as we've lost

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    This might be a good place for you to itemize the other surveillance tools people should be talking to their local elected officials about.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    ...

    That's my point no list will be good enough. Although I did include another example most would be familiar to illustrate there are other issues...

    We need to fight against the concept of constant warrantless surveillance. Not just what methods are used or even thought of today.

    If we banned every existing method, everyone will try to find new ones. Then we'd have to wait for those to be massive problems before enough people care

    Make it against surveillance in general, and we don't even have to make new catchy slogans.

    Anything else is playing a game designed for us to lose.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (5 children)

    So what's the strategy besides just being upset on the internet?

    The reason the fight against Flock is working is because people have something tangible to go to council meetings and target.

    Even with that it took several years to get our community to turn against Flock and get our village to cancel their contract and have the cameras removed. Trumps goons actually ended up succeeding where we couldn't.

    If you're going to tell the people actually getting shit done they're doing it wrong you should offer more than just criticism.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    If you’re going to tell the people actually getting shit done they’re doing it wrong you should offer more than just criticism.

    I've said it multiple times ..

    We need to fight against the concept of constant warrantless surveillance.

    I don't know what's so hard to understand about that, and frankly can't think of an easier way to explain it.

    I think you're just gonna have to accept you can't understand that, and I'll accept I'm not able to explain basic concepts to you.

    It is what it is. Best of luck.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    How about you share the strategies you have executed at council meetings to achieve this goal? And you can share what the solution to the problem looked like in the end.

    That way we can all try to emulate your success.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Noooooononono.... you don't understand, they want you to formulate a strategy so they can steal it from you and claim it's theirs for future arguments! Silly person you!

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