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[–] 37 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Someone in my family was briefly obsessed with the idea that Google had a habit of gathering information by treating its own users as guinea pigs. Sending users on routes that would help Google gather traffic flow information, rather than routes that made the best use of users' time.

As far as I know, that was an internet rumor, not the result of evidence or investigation. But it's the kind of allegation that's pretty much impossible to disprove.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago

    It is 100% confirmed that Google will route traffic outside of communities if community leaders request it. The famous example was the wealthy neighborhood that had a great view of the famous "Hollywood" sign who got annoyed at tourists being directed there to admire it.

    Apologies but this Daily Mail article is the best I can find. It was back in 2014 and by now most of the other coverage is either behind a paywall or sites that no longer exist.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    AFAIK Google does "spread" routes a bit if sufficient, close-enough alternatives exist. That helps reduce congestion, which at a large enough scale does help users to reach their destination faster than if they all took the "fastest" route.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Would it be a surprise? How would it gather traffic data if they don't send a few cars down an unpopular path? Not saying it is right.

    I stopped trusting it when I drove to north Carolina and it had me get off 40 to take some backwater road that went through several small towns and actually made the trip longer and used more fuel.

    It tried to do it on the same route a different day. I ignored it and the trip time decreased by 20 min when I skipped that part of the route and just stayed on 40.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    How would it gather traffic data if they don't send a few cars down an unpopular path?

    If there's no cars there, there's no traffic data to collect. If there are already cars there, just use their data. Google doesn't just use maps to gather it. There's not much point in sending someone on an arbitrary detour for the hell of it.

    Google does seem to often overestimate the practicality of the more rural routes, often pretending you can always stick to the speed limit there when the actual road would not be safe at those speeds. Plus more crossings, bends etc... slowing you down. Or maybe that day Google figured there was a traffic jam on 40.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Google Maps have gotten quite a lot worse over tgr last few years. I have tried various alternatives but none function properly. Live traffic routing is a big problem for alternatives. I have tried Magic Earth and Nunav but had to revert back to Google Maps in both cases.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Controversial opinion: Apple Maps has far superior navigation currently. As in it will actually give correct lane guidance and haven’t directed me to the wrong place yet (Google Maps suggested the wrong ferry terminal recently, lol)

    Also tried a few alternatives but a lot of the free apps have given the same strange directions as Google, or missed important shit like one way road directions.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Apple Maps does not update their map as frequently though.

    I drive a lot for work and frequently have to go into neighborhoods that are currently being built or were built 1 to 2 years ago. Even the ones that finished construction over a year ago either do not have the addresses in the correct place, or one just flat out shows up as an empty field with no roads despite being fully finished. This is very fun at midnight on a Saturday when the builder decided to put all the house numbers as engraved numbers on grey bricks built into the garage corner.

    Google Maps on the other hand will take me to where I need to go nearly all the time.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago

    Or, it's faster but you need to zigzag through residential streets and eventually make dangerous left turns into traffic without a light or stop sign to stop the heavy traffic in both directions.

    Oops, it took too long to turn so it's no longer faster-- why didn't you just stay in the main boulevard? Silly human.

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  • [–] 45 points 1 month ago (9 children)

    Always check no tolls. It'll always recommend the toll, unless there is an accident or major traffic disruption, even if it only saves 1 min. Rarely are tolls worth it outside peak hour.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    One time I was making my way home, about a 4 hour drive, and set it in google maps. I had forgot to turn off tolls,and started driving. It was a real surprise when I ended up at a ferry to cross Lake Michigan. I dont think they took cars, and it was 11pm anyway so they were closed. Thanks google! Idk how thats supposed to help when the ferry is scheduled for every couple hours. Who would even want that option? It didnt save any time unless you could hop on a ferry as soon as you got there.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    For some reason? We don't live in a star trek like utopia. This is exactly how this technology is supposed to work in a capitalist society.

    Just imagine when you are in a self driving car you will have no choice at all.

    You could be moved through multiple toll roads. Or which toll owner is the highest bidder. Google knows everything about you through your.data. if you are poor you will be routed out of the way or into parking lot like traffic while other roads are kept clear for the affluent.

    People talking about self-driving cars and the need to solve the trolley problem are out of touch with reality. The trolley problem is solved. The richest person in the accident will always survive. And that is easily determined by your data.

    This is the world we live in and how the tech will be used. It's the same issue with the"AI is just a tool" folks.

    A knife is just a tool too. But would you want to live in a world where all the knives are owned solely by socio paths that have all the power in society?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Yeah, but it brings you past this commercial zone where a number of chains and franchises pay Google a lot of advertising money.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    Google maps has taken to routing me onto unsafe roads for walking and biking instead of available trails which are 1000x safer. They removed the "beta" marker long ago but it was shit like that they were concerned about getting sued for. Instead of focusing on fixing shit like that they were busy monetizing and only removed the beta marker once they realized they were legally invincible.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    So many here are so happily accepting the very concept of a toll road, it's kind of gross.

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  • [+] 6 points 1 month ago (3 children)
  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago

    Not OC but I agree with him. Where I live, the toll roads are owned by private corporations, some of them entirely foreign owned corporations, and the rates are obscenely high. It isn't about maintaining the road; instead it is about rent seeking behavior and maximizing shareholder profits. That is abhorrent to me. Public goods should be owned by the public.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    Americans want good roads but don't want to pay taxes or tolls to keep them maintained.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    We already pay the taxes. Tolls are on top of that to private corporations and that money is kept not used for road repair. Don't talk about things you don't know.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    In most countries, every highway is a toll road instead of taxing fuel. Though an increasing number use a prepaid vignette or plate based mail billing instead, not actual physical tool booths like we're in the 80s.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Every time I have to open that piece of shit I end up screaming at it, screaming!

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    The most generous guess is that it is doing some exploratory investigation of how long the other paths are currently taking. For any navigation app to be very accurate for most users, it needs to be very inaccurate for some users. It won't know that taking this 30 minute detour is worth taking without someone taking that detour and another person sitting through the traffic that made the detour worthwhile. And since traffic changes over time, it would need to continually do that exploration.

    Though it wouldn't surprise me if that's not the only factor and that there's some enshitification going on on top of this. One guess in that angle: a special secret VIP mode where people who have given Google a lot of money get people directed away from their route.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    In any case, alternate routes are only faster for the first three people who use them. After that you are no worse off in the first traffic jam than in the alternate traffic jam.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    In the area where I live, Google Maps has a huge highway fetish and often it is more relaxing to take the smaller roads.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Do people actually read books like that?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Every time I visit my family in Wales Google tries to take me away from the perfectly reliable A55 and onto some ungodly assemblage of extremely narrow country roads and tenuous mountain passes. Sometimes it offers them to me but I've caught it secretly changing my precalculated route without my input. Unfortunately I've tried several alternatives (various osm apps, here wego) and the only real alternative is Waze... which is owned by Google. We are nothing but cattle to them. I think Google is trying to kill me.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    Woooops, seems there's a bit of traffic here. Let me redirect you through this small back road that's definitely not crowded now because I've been redirecting everyone there since 5 minutes ago.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    Ive been given routes miles out of my way because google wants to put me on the turnpike.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    You can turn off all those settings though, one of the few things Google still does right.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago

    I've rarely had such suboptimal experiences with Google Maps. With that said, I've moved to Vela Maps, which is sort of like NewPipe for Google Maps; use it while logged out with local-only customization. It's gotten incredibly good over the past months! It's a bit worse than Google Maps in failing to account for temporary roadblocks, but other than that, it's incredibly well-done, despite almost certainly being an LLM product. (I'm not inherently against LLM products as long as they're privacy-respecting and efficient enough, such as, I suspect, Episteme Reader, and AI-originated-but-human-continued Stirling-PDF.)

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