Like, it's such a punch in the face of the user when it's hidden in the terms of service. It's so scummy it hurts. I still can't believe corporations are getting away with avoiding going through the legal system like that.

Here are the cons of an arbitration clause:

  1. You lose the right to class action lawsuits
  2. It's less public than going through the legal system

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[–] 55 points 2 months ago (1 child)

As a general rule, arbitration is a great tool for multiple parties to resolve a dispute without going all the way to trial.

The issue isn't with arbitration on it's face, but forced arbitration as dictated by a single party.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 months ago

    No. Arbitration can save all parties time and money in many types of disputes. It's often reasonable for a negotiated contract between near-peer parties to contain an arbitration clause.

    What should be illegal is arbitration clauses in non-negotiable terms of service.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It should not be allowed to be part of the terms of service for a product. But two consenting parties should be allowed to use it.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    It definitely should be. Employers should not have the ability to just decide they don't want to be sued and pretending like the employees have a choice in the matter is a joke. Most of them. Are wage salves and can't afford to be fired for not agreeing to forced arbitration.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    Because the wrong people are in power to allow it to happen.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    Depends on the arbiters. If they're truly independent and unbiased, that's great.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    That's the crux of it. How are arbiters ever going to be truly independent when repeat businesses necessarily only ever comes from one half of their arbitration? CorpoCorpInc selects your arbitration company for 200 arbitrations a year. How many of those cases does CorpoCorpInc lose before they decide to go with a different arbitrator?

    So maybe if you want to make a law, find a way to break that implicit feedback loop.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Typically, you choose arbiters like you would choose a jury and you can object....

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    Let's say you're some slob disputing a $65 charge or some shit and they are a multi-billion dollar corporation that does thousands of these a year. Even if you object to their pick, whomever you mutually decide to go with has a chance at repeat businesses with CorpoCorpInc, but very unlikely to have repeat business with you.

    Edit: I honestly donΒ΄t know anything about the details of arbitration, so if you'd like to tell me what safeguards are in place, I'm all ears.

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    [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    You lose the right to class action lawsuits

    I love when I get a coupon in the mail and lose my right to sue the company, whereas the offending company pays basically some small fine and the lawyers go home with a huge payday.

    But I agree, forced arbitration sucks, I'm glad that it's unenforceable here (other than in B2B agreements)

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    it is. contracts can not make you go against the law.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Yeah you should not do business with anyone that arbitration Claus. Also you can stratch out arbitration Claus in contracts

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    It's legal because people agree to it as part of entering a contract. And as scummy as you or I may believe it to be, people still enter into such contracts, and courts have not ruled them unconscionable.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    people agree to it

    Hardly an agreement if it's predicated on access to a service, particularly if the service is a utility, a monopoly, or a cartel.

    If every vendor uses uniform language as a means of mitigating their own collective liability, the agreement is functionally coerced.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    I agree, but I also think we need to be aware of what we agree to when entering service agreements. Certainly for something like an ISP for which there is often a monopoly there may not be much of a choice, but even when you do have a choice, how often do you actually read what you're agreeing to? We have the option to try to vote with our wallets, but instead we've collectively just continued to sign up for services that have arbitration agreements. If companies see only token resistance to such contracts then they're not going to be deterred.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    even when you do have a choice, how often do you actually read what you’re agreeing to?

    You don't bother precisely because it's an enormous amount of work for no discernable benefit.

    What are you doing to do? Not rent a car or fly on a plane? Not own any electronics or motorized vehicles? Not rent an apartment? Not use software?

    We have the option to try to vote with our wallets

    Do we? What good is money if we can't spend it?

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    I suppose you're right. We are powerless and griping on the internet is the only catharsis available to us!

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    It's helpful to understand what you actually have control over, rather than confusing good fortune for savvy decision making.

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