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[–] 8 points 3 months ago (9 children)

By my estimates solar power would cover 0.3% of its propulsion cost, or 5% of its other electrical needs

Estimating 11000-14000kW needed at the shaft and up to 2000kW for other electrical needs

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    As is evidenced by their decision to go with dual fuel, the point of the solar was not to cover propulsion costs.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    Nor does it even seem to cover a significant portion of auxiliary needs

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Except it does.

    This power helps run the ship’s operations, lowering fuel use and making the ship more energy efficient.

    This is textbook peak shaving. Not to mention the engineering feat of integrating solar with LNG for this cargo application.

    Hopping into the comments to decry the ship for not doing full propulsion via solar just shows your ignorance. It's like complaining about a hammer for not being able to screw in a fastener.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    It's just greenwashing. Companies do it all the time. Slapp some solar on it or use some insignificant amount of recycling and you got your press release which lazy journalist just have to copy. That lead to clickbait articles.

    And if you're being honest you're just defending it because the "by China" in the title.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    This is an odd strawman to construct

    doing full propulsion via solar just shows your ignorance

    The only ignorant person here my friend is you, nobody has said or suggested such a thing

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  • 20 comments in c/technology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 46 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (10 children)

    The ship’s solar system can produce up to 200 kilowatts at its peak and generates about 1,000 kilowatt-hours of electricity daily

    The carrier also uses a dual-fuel propulsion system that operates on conventional fuel oil and LNG.

    I was real excited for electric shipping since one ship like this produces an unbelievable amount of pollution, but this is kinda pitiful in comparison to the power needs of these ships:

    The propulsion arrangement on each ship includes one MAN 6S60MC-MK 10.5-GI-EcoEGR main engine with a rated output of 14,950 kW (20,000 hp) driving a propeller, a 2,000kW bow thruster, and three Himsen 8H22CDF 1,500kW generators. The LNG fuel is stored in two type C tanks with a combined capacity of 1,700 cubic metres (370,000 gallons).

    1000kwh isn't nothing and I suppose it might meet the ship's power needs while in port (edit: nvm average shore power consumption for a panamax is 600kw) but this feels like a whole lot of greenwashing given they don't mention the power requirements in the article.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    hmm quite disappointing, guess to run something power hungry but has limited space like a ship nuclear might be the way if you want it fast, if you don't need it fast you could go wind power (sails are so back)

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    honestly surprised they don't have something that utilizes the forces of the ocean to generate a charge.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago* (5 children)

    Which would increase drag and make it a worthless exercise. It would also mean loss of power in stormy seas, and who wants manoeuvrability in those sort of conditions anyway?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    that's quitter talk. if we can send trash into orbit we can certainly find a way to leverage oceanic motion.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)

    Tidal generators are very much a technology (one, admittedly, in it's infancy). The forces the ocean provides are generally too extreme to be casually harnessed, and even something as seemingly benign as waves redounding on the beach contain energy on the scale of nuclear weapons, and it's contained in an extremely corrosive medium (salt water). And that's not even the deep ocean movements, which are unfathomably (sorry) more powerful even then, and that's before we get to the fact that the engine driving the tides is the entire damn moon.

    Something like a tidal turbine would be completely unworkable on a ship; by their nature they produce energy from the difference of forces - which is to say, they would only generate power as long as the boat is moving counter to the current being harnessed. Even in an ideal world where we're sovereign citizens to the laws of thermodynamics and have cast off the shackles of entropy, your ship would still have to output the same amount of energy as your turbine is harvesting just to stay in one spot.

    There's another common idea which is to use some kind of "water sail" that harnesses the currents and drags the ships along. The first problem with this is that, unless you're about to have a very bad day, the ocean is creepily slow. Waves travel through the water, but don't really displace the water molecules themselves, so there's very little for an underwater sail to harness (side note: but do make use of underwater sails, but in the exact opposite way most people expect - sea anchors are basically enormous submerged sails, used to keep a ship relatively stationary when it's too deep to use a traditional anchor). And were we to delve deeper for some of the deep thermal currents, it can take hundreds of years (or more) for water to make a complete cycle, which would be a very slow trip indeed.

    Yet another proposal I've seen is to have some sort of large sliding body, a bit like those flashlights with a rod in them that you charge by shaking up and down, only much larger. The idea is that as the pitch of the ship changes as it ascends and descends waves, some very large weight (or multiple smaller weights or etc.) slides back and forth through long sets of coils, generating tremendous if quite periodic amounts of energy which is then stored in batteries or etc. This idea has many flaws, but I'll briefly touch on three:

    • The free surface effect, a mechanism through which things moving on a boat cause the spontaneous generation of so many partial differential equations that your ship decides it'll be easier just to sink itself
    • The huge amount of valuable cargo space that has to be dedicated to the generating system
    • The question of what to do when you're stuck on calm seas.

    The best approach would be to capture the quicker currents that are close to the surface, which are are often wind driven. There's actually been huge advancements to harvest wind currents directly, usually using large sheets of cloth (or some other medium with high tensile strength) attached to long towers on the surface of the ship with these things called sails.

    ... Okay but joking aside, there actually have been really cool advances in using sails on cargo ships, that are extremely promising. More work needs to be done before we see them on a panamax, but there's already been some fairly eager adoption of rotor sails for smaller cargo ships! It's super cool tech that I hope can be combined with electrification to massively reduce (or if I were an optimist, eliminate entirely) the impact of shipping. Time will of course tell, but there is some cool progress being made.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    The free surface effect, a mechanism through which things moving on a boat cause the spontaneous generation of so many partial differential equations that your ship decides it’ll be easier just to sink itself

    Curses! Foiled by surprise differential equations again!

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    We already do with tidal generators.

    And theres ways to follow currents for extra help, but you’re limited to that and where the current moves.

    Anything else and you’d have to violate the laws of physics.

    It’s like putting a wind turbine on an electric car. The increased drag would cost more electricity than the turbine could produce.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    That looks a little gimmicky to me. I'd expect more panels on that ship if they were going to have a meaningful impact.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago

    I saw a story about a similar car carrier with solar panels, basically they're used to offset the hotel load of the ship, and have nothing to do with the propulsion.

    Which is still a significant improvement considering how much time a vessel like this spends at port loading and unloading.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    Man, I don't even have a 1 car carrier. It's never enough for some people.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago*

    So this ship is obviously just an experiment in greenwashing, it sounds like the panels basically just keep the lights on.

    But if the 10,800 cars were all EVs equipped with V2L and you had them powering the ship, how far could their batteries at 100% propel the ship?

    10,800 * 80 kWh = 864,000 kWh. Another post said the engine output is 15,000 kW, so it could go full steam for 864,000/15,000 = 57.6 hours? Although I guess using an electric rather than fossil engine will be a lot more efficient (2x? 3x?) Still, the energy density of oil is amazing...

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Don't they also have big ships with sails?

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago*

    First thought it was a GPU or something.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    Ultimately the paradigm of mass shipping millions of tons of cargo across the ocean needs to stop if the environment is something that anyone wants to pretend to care about. As far as the cargo that is shipped, Cars are certainly the worst.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    I was actually thinking about this recently. It's now making a lot of sense to just cover the mega carriers in solar panels like this. Could probably even just carry a massive battery and be completely emissions free. Maybe a tiny nuclear reactor as an emergency backup?

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  • 1 comment in c/fuckcars@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 24 points 3 months ago

    "Combining solar and LNG"

    Hey, I slapped a solar panel on my gas stove to power the clock. Its green now.

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