Today, many former Biden Administration officials argue that their pressure on the Israelis prevented a famine from happening sooner. Over time, the officials contend, Biden’s efforts also slowed the killing: about twenty-five thousand Palestinians died in the first three months of the Gaza conflict, and it took twelve months for the death toll to double. (The Gaza Health Ministry, which tracks fatalities, does not differentiate between civilians and combatants.) In particular, Biden’s warnings about Rafah appear to have prompted Israel to do far more to evacuate civilians than it had done before levelling Gaza City and Khan Younis. A senior White House official told me that American pressure had made the destruction of Rafah “less horrific for civilians than it might have been,” even if Israel nonetheless “flattened it.” Several former officials noted to me with pride that after October 7th the Administration became the first to sanction violent West Bank settlers. Everyone in the Biden Administration blames Trump for allowing the war to continue until last October, for leaving Israeli forces occupying at least sixty per cent of Gaza, and for allowing the war to inflame the Middle East.

McGurk, the most hawkish voice around Biden, declined to be quoted for this article. But people close to him told me he believes that his warning proved true: the limited public pressure that the Biden Administration imposed on Israel to protect civilians actually extended the war. In an op-ed in the Washington Post last year, he argued that Hamas released the hostages because Israel had decimated its fighters while the “force of arms across the Middle East” by the U.S. and Israel crippled Iran and its proxies, leaving Hamas “isolated and no longer able to count on a multifront conflict.” Despite the war’s grim toll, he concluded, “there was no shortcut.”

Yet, with more than seventy thousand Palestinians dead, most of Gaza’s remaining population displaced, and the Israeli military occupying much of the territory, the conflict undermined the long-term U.S. interest that the Biden Administration claimed to have pursued: a democratic Jewish state coexisting peacefully with a Palestinian one. Among Israelis, the protracted ordeal of the hostages hardened opposition to the already fading prospect of Palestinian statehood. Settlement of the West Bank has accelerated steeply. Among Palestinians, the civilian death toll has only increased the appeal of Hamas-style armed resistance, just as Secretary Austin warned. And Hamas—which ended the war with about twenty thousand fighters, some recruited and trained during the war—controls the remainder of Gaza. Before October 7th, Israel and the U.S. estimated that Hamas had fewer than thirty thousand fighters. The ranks of Hamas decreased by around ten thousand; more than seventy thousand Palestinians were killed in the process. In the U.S., moreover, the death toll has severely damaged the historic American sympathy for the Jewish state. In congressional primaries, an acrimonious debate over continued U.S. support for Israel has riven the Democratic Party to an extent unimaginable just five years ago—and it threatens to divide Republicans as well. Jon Finer told me that the hallmark of the Gaza conflict has been that, for both Hamas and Israel, “civilian harm was not a side effect but part of the strategy.” The U.S., he said, “shouldn’t tolerate wars in which civilian harm is a goal, and shouldn’t allow our weapons to be used for that purpose.”

Blinken and Sullivan told me that they, too, felt remorse. Blinken said, “How can you not have regrets given the toll that this took on innocent men, women and children?” But he repeated a quote from Biden: “Question my judgments. Don’t question my motives.”

Archived at https://ghostarchive.org/archive/44kgX

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[–] [S] 8 points 3 months ago

Blinken and Sullivan told me that they, too, felt remorse. Blinken said, “How can you not have regrets given the toll that this took on innocent men, women and children?” But he repeated a quote from Biden: “Question my judgments. Don’t question my motives.”

When people questioned their judgment they were called anti-semites, arrested, expelled, threatened with deportation, etc., and at the end of the day their only real consistent motivation was protecting their own egos and refusing to admit they were wrong

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    This is a matter of pure debate.

    The arguments rely on counterfactuals that cannot be proven because no one can know the outcomes under different U.S. policies. There is no control case to show that American pressure either saved lives or prolonged the war.

    E.g., there is no evidence an “all-out” campaign would have ended sooner, caused less damage or resulted in fewer casualties. The article even describes the Biden administration’s actions as unprecedented- which makes predictions about alternative outcomes strictly speculative, especially given Gaza’s condition of urban terrain, tunnel networks, hostages, and Hamas operating among civilians.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Pretty much the entire article is Biden administration folks admitting they fucked up but saying they had good intentions, so it seems like the debate is pretty much over

    The article even

    "even"? It's bending over backwards to be more than fair to these idiot assholes and extensively reported, give me a beeak

    describes the Biden administration’s actions as unprecedented

    As were Israel's actions

    Gaza’s condition of urban terrain, tunnel networks, hostages, and Hamas operating among civilians

    Conditions Israel created and which don't excuse its conduct either way, conduct which the Biden administration extensively supported despite whatever misgivings they might have felt and are only recently giving any real voice to

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  • 25 comments in c/world view that post
    [–] 11 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    Its just a bunch of c/politics posts from 2024...

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (7 children)
  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago* (6 children)

    It was intended to be a bit tongue in cheek, but even before the onset of the genocide, and especially after after October 7th, there was an extremely polarizing debate on lemmy with regards to Biden (and Harris), their role in enabling and furthering the genocide and supporting Israel, and the impact this was having on the Democrats ability to maintain power in the 2024 election.

    The discussion pooled into two camps, one critical of the administration and their response, arguing that it was hurting their ability to stop Trump in the upcoming election, and the second, argued that criticism of the administration would decrease support for them, and that to stop Trump, you needed to support Biden (or Harris) regardless of their performance or role in enabling the genocide.

    Obviously the article focuses squarely on the period before the genocide, but this discussion started here long ago, and was made more salient by the events of the day.

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 3 months ago* (5 children)

    I suppose in that sense this article is thorough proof the latter camp's strategy was catastrophic in exactly the way the former camp was warning it would be....

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I mean you'd think that. Instead the latter camp has decided that it was the voters fault, for not showing up for Harris, when she famously and repeatedly said she would do nothing fundamentally different than Biden. It breaks the brain, in many ways, because the camp making the argument around electorallism was also the one insisting on the least electorally viable strategy; and vehemently. And I think in some ways that becomes the crux of it, in that it reveals a deep cynicism in the apologist camp, that it was never really about stopping a genocide or even about getting Biden elected, because those things were one and the same, and critically, enough voices were making that known at the time they really can't make any excuses for not knowing that a failure to hold Israel accountable would result in an electoral loss for Biden.

    The goal of apologists was never to get Biden elected or harm reduction, but rather, to protect an approach to electoral and government. For the apologists, it was about them, and those they associate their identity with, it was about protecting how they choose to govern from critique. And we saw that very clearly with how Schumers and Jefferies decided, and through media were supported in doing so, a "lay down, play dead" approach to politics while in the minority position. And since then, its only become more and more apparent as we've progressed into the mid-terms, and consistently, almost half of Democrats are willing to just "go along to get along" with whatever horrendous thing the Republicans want to get through in congress. Simultaneously, we're also seeing an uprising from within the party in the form of the wave of socialists coming into power post '24. This is paired with some fairly insane degrees of hand-wringing on the part of "third way Democrats", who make up the core of the apologetics movement.

    I mean its plain as day now. And I guess as one of the most vocal members of the anti-apologist camp, I would say it was as plain as day then. But we're still somehow having the conversation.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago (10 children)

    Isreal has been aggressive assholes my entire life. Biden was only president for 4 years.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Why do you think this makes Biden look better or less culpable? That makes his choices look even worse...?

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Pick a president, any president since they annihilated people to dig out space for Isreal. Why just one?

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    Because the current genocide is literally a culmination of all of the worst parts of that history and it was obvious during Biden's presidency that this was so.

    Don't play games with this by trying to imply that because bad things have happened in the past that the current Palestinian Genocide isn't a world historic awful event.

    Get out of here with your 'whataboutism' I won't stand for such a lazy method of diverting a nuanced, critical analysis of what has led to this.

    Yes, what is happening now is a product of history and the choices of leaders, we all know this, now can you be an adult about this please?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Current admin is blatantly corrupt. No shame, no pride, no attempt to even hide their corruption from the unwashed masses. Previous admin did some pretty horrible shit too. Time the world recognizes the US for exactly what they are. A whole bunch of very decent people living under the oppression of a broken and corrupt government.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Isreal has been aggressive assholes my entire life. Trump was only president for 4 years.

    See how dumb is that argument?

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    It works for any president going back to when they geenocided the first time. Why pick one?

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago

    Yep, it's true. Biden and his idiot goons, like the joyful and unconditional Israel genocide supporter, "couldn't think of anything I'd do differently, oh, but have a Republican in my cabinet," Kamala Cheney, helped Trump win. Those same useful idiots are the ones that would boast their No King's protests selfies on major social media platforms and then clapped like seals in NPC admiration for an actual king. Anyone that buried their head for decrepit Biden or his coronated donor-picked corporate warcrimes Dick Cheney-praising shill should just go join MAGA, cause they have the same intelligence-levels and morals as most of them, if not less.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    lol. Of course it's Biden's fault. What isn't? I heard that son of a bitch personally invented suffering, starvation, disease, and death.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    Also don't forget obama which allowed isrsel to have 800 millions additional aid anually for 10 years

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  • 13 comments in c/fediverse_vs_disinfo@lemmy.dbzer0.com view that post
    [–] 2 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    And then we elected the great savior that stopped it cold...

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (6 children)

    Is the only response you have to this a snarky remark about how Trump is worse? That is pathetic.

    Of course Trump is worse, for Palestinians, for Americans, for everyone, now sit down and read the damn article.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Of course Trump is worse, for Palestinians, for Americans, for everyone

    Consider including this critical context in the post body if you're going to post such a questionable headline, otherwise people will rightly jump in to flag glaring issues suggestive of m/disinformation

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    No, I do not need to coddle centrists who kneejerk respond to every criticism of Biden, especially with regards to the Palestinian Genocide, with a thought terminating "Well Trump is worse so stop complaining, this is YOUR FAULT" in which they assume incorrectly that I did not vote for Harris.

    I am not the one tearing down the nuance and intelligence of the conversation about this.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Putting up things attacking Biden who hasn't been in office for a year and change when we have a fascist who actually starting throwing bombs and missiles comes off as 'all this shit is actually Biden's fault'. Hell, the current lunatic is still trying to blame Biden for high gas when he started another middle east war. This kind of thing plays right into that narrative.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 3 months ago*

    How dare you imply two years is too long to hold people accountable for facilitating Genocide, shame on you.

    There is no "lets just move on from this" as world geopolitics are now almost entirely ensnared in the consequences of this and will be so for decades.

    Biden is a central character in the history of our future.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    Biden, who? Trump though.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    I mean yeah I agree with this but genuenly who gives a fuck? Biden hasn't been president for almost two years now. He committed a genocide, the Democrats before him committed this genocide, Trump committed this genocide, and the next corporate Democrat will probrally be no different.

    Biden isn't special nor is Trump, none of these people are special

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

    This is one of the most important geopolitical events in our lifetimes, your dismissal of it not being worth the time to discuss this critically is absurd as the consequences of this will reverberate for the rest of our lives.

    Refuse to understand this past and you will be hopeless at understanding the future.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Ok then why not talk about the genocide happening right now? The genocide is still ongoing so it seems odd to specifically mention the genocide two years ago. I mean this isn't about the total genocide or the entire history of the genocide (which started in 1948) but specifically the genocide two years ago.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    No, if you actually read the article you would see that it explains how things have led up to this current moment in Israel and how the failure to deal with the root problem of the Palestinian Genocide and bring an end to the ethnic cleansing has continued to grow the problem since Biden's presidency into the Iran War which is threatening to genuinely become World War 3.

    The article does talk about Trump, under the framing that Trump is essentially an incompetent fascist who accelerated and scaled up the process, if you take that as an endorsement of Trump or an attempt to reduce blame on him or Stephen Miller for this Genocide of Palestinians than you are way too defensive of your views and need to step back and realize you are being triggered by a phantom you are projecting yourself.

    Also, you are behaving like a child to suggest that talking about a Genocide that was occurring 2 years ago is some absurd stretch of our focus and attention to something so far back in time it is no longer relevant. Are you like 8 years old or something and 2 years is a quarter of your life to you?

    Yes, Trump is a literal fascist, nobody is debating that in this conversation.

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  • 4 comments in c/longreads@sh.itjust.works view that post
    [–] 3 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Oh please they were fighting long ago. Stop making up shit about Biden

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago* (2 children)

    What am I making up specifically?

    This article is from a reputable publication and is very very very heavily sourced from interviews with people all the way at the top of the Biden administration.

    If they are making this up, then we can't really dispute that now can we? They were the only ones in the room and they are telling us this is true so how the hell did you get from there to me making this shit up about Biden?

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  • 2 comments in c/politics@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Providing the money and weapons while denying a genocide tends to enable

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago*

    I wouldn't have cross-posted this if it were anybody other than the New Yorker.

    "Those who don't study history..."

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  • 2 comments in c/usa@midwest.social view that post
    [–] 6 points 3 months ago* (1 child)

    He literally let Netanyahu fuck the election for him by not taking a stand. He KNEW Bibi was in Trump's pocket and he did FUCK ALL to stop it by making clear he wasn't going to support a fucking genocide.

    He literally let Netanyahu walk all the fuck over him and give ammo for Trump.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    I remember an interview where they were asking him about his thoughts on stepping down for the election. He said he didn't want to, ofc, and they asked him if he stayed and threw the election what would he tell Americans. He tried his best was his reply...

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  • 1 comment in c/globalnews@lemmy.zip view that post