▲ 333 ▼ O no! Not the nazisss (lemmy.ml) submitted 1 year ago by bubblybubbles@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 270 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 25 points 1 year ago (14 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (7 children) That's true, but what about that requires this? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (5 children) The Poles asked for their troops back when they were forming a USSR-based army and were told that thousands had mysteriously escaped. Then when asked for an official investigation, the Soviets broke ties with the Polish government in exile and made their own. The Soviets themselves later admitted it was the NKVD. Are you defending the USSR from its own slander? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Thanks for your effortposting BTW. I might not agree with your every take but it's good work regardless! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago But I do think we overall more agree than disagree Precisely; well put Also I can relate somewhat with the impulses and procrastination (tho it's ASD for me LOL), but especially the anxiety and am glad you are able to work on improving in that regard :) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] shoo@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) Per our other conversation, the Soviets were trading for German finished goods. Why would you not expect to find German goods here?? And again, the Soviets themselves admitted to it. Why are you even discussing forgeries? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) German-USSR trade was still ongoing in 1941. As part of that trade they did gain access to samples of German artillery, tanks and more. German companies were also known to export arms (in violation of the Versailles treaty) well before WWII. And even if you deny that, there were dozens of countries manufacturing arms and ammo in the German caliber because, get this, German guns were well designed! Dismissing all evidence that could put Soviets in a bad light, even when it's internal. Truly you are a Communist at heart. So let's put all that aside: capturing thousands of POWs and having them end up massacred in a ditch is acceptable? There's no fault attributable to them for having this happen to people in their control and under their protection? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago 1940 is the date Goebbels reported All of these were verified by the Red Cross and there are stacks of documents giving evidence and testimony to the contrary. But yes, I suppose if you throw out everything you don't like then any argument will get flimsy. Certainly we don't get "genuine analysis" as you put it. Further, again, the Soviet weaponry did not fire German ammunition. The NKVD was a police force, they were under no compulsion to use military issue weapons. There are other documented instances of them using foreign weapons, it's not out of the ordinary. This whole weapon discussion is circumstantial evidence at best, there are plenty of ways it could have happened. And of course Goebbels was eager to report it, it's very well documented in his own records that he was excited about the find and the bad PR it would give the Soviets. The fact that you're dismissing the general consensus that the international community has come to after decades of investigation just to maintain your own narrative is pretty disappointing. America rightly draws criticism for their strong arm enforcement of "democratic values" through occupation, but you see no parallel to the USSR enforcing "Soviet values" through the same occupation strategy. You've got some massive blinders on. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] krolden@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Oh no, they killed nazis??? Unforgivable!! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] matmarspace@programming.dev -3 points 1 year ago (5 children) Yes! Of course it was. 100%! No denying of that. :) I was rather referring to the so called "liberation of Poland" by the Soviets and all the things that happened afterwards. The puppet government of People's Republic of Poland and all the other things. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] vfreire85@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago* i remember a pic of an arse-faced woman showing the monthly ration provided to her by the state in poland, as if saying "look at this misery". probably the pic was shot in the early 80s. when i first saw that the first thing that came to my mind is that, in northeastern brazil (my home region), around the same time, about 1.5 million people died of starvation and malnutrition during the drought of 1977-83, and many would literally give an arm or a leg for that ration. permalink fedilink source parent [–] matmarspace@programming.dev -3 points 1 year ago* (3 children) Well... I'm not a fan of communism so in my opinion of course will differ. Nevertheless I think it was net negative especially because of personal freedoms (or lack there of), censorship, police brutality etc., but I totally agree that it was far better than Nazi occupation. Of course it was. It was peace time finally after all. History isn't black and white so there were some good things from PRL (polish acronym for People's Republic of Poland). Free education, healthcare and mass construction of public housing were some of the good ones that to this day make our lives in Poland better (the prefabricated housing especially in my opinion) but I think it could have been done without all the atrocities inflicted by the puppet government if only Poland was independent after the war and not under the de facto Soviet occupation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago If you have an open mind and have ~3 minutes, I can recommend this short clip from a Michael Parenti lecture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSpVB_XXXBQ Further "reading" if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeVs6t3vdjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npkeecCErQc permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] matmarspace@programming.dev -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) That's understandable. By the way in my opinion much of the anti-sentiment towards communism in Polish society today comes from all the bad stuff the PRL government did so maybe if that didn't happen the outlook on it today would be different. For example as a strong free speech advocate I think it's a shame that today in Poland "promoting communism" is prohibited by law (it's not even a normal legislation but it's enshrined in the constitution). I personally think that shouldn't be the case. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] matmarspace@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago Thanks for the discussion. Have a good day my friend :) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (7 children) That's true, but what about that requires this? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (5 children) The Poles asked for their troops back when they were forming a USSR-based army and were told that thousands had mysteriously escaped. Then when asked for an official investigation, the Soviets broke ties with the Polish government in exile and made their own. The Soviets themselves later admitted it was the NKVD. Are you defending the USSR from its own slander? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Thanks for your effortposting BTW. I might not agree with your every take but it's good work regardless! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago But I do think we overall more agree than disagree Precisely; well put Also I can relate somewhat with the impulses and procrastination (tho it's ASD for me LOL), but especially the anxiety and am glad you are able to work on improving in that regard :) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] shoo@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) Per our other conversation, the Soviets were trading for German finished goods. Why would you not expect to find German goods here?? And again, the Soviets themselves admitted to it. Why are you even discussing forgeries? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) German-USSR trade was still ongoing in 1941. As part of that trade they did gain access to samples of German artillery, tanks and more. German companies were also known to export arms (in violation of the Versailles treaty) well before WWII. And even if you deny that, there were dozens of countries manufacturing arms and ammo in the German caliber because, get this, German guns were well designed! Dismissing all evidence that could put Soviets in a bad light, even when it's internal. Truly you are a Communist at heart. So let's put all that aside: capturing thousands of POWs and having them end up massacred in a ditch is acceptable? There's no fault attributable to them for having this happen to people in their control and under their protection? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago 1940 is the date Goebbels reported All of these were verified by the Red Cross and there are stacks of documents giving evidence and testimony to the contrary. But yes, I suppose if you throw out everything you don't like then any argument will get flimsy. Certainly we don't get "genuine analysis" as you put it. Further, again, the Soviet weaponry did not fire German ammunition. The NKVD was a police force, they were under no compulsion to use military issue weapons. There are other documented instances of them using foreign weapons, it's not out of the ordinary. This whole weapon discussion is circumstantial evidence at best, there are plenty of ways it could have happened. And of course Goebbels was eager to report it, it's very well documented in his own records that he was excited about the find and the bad PR it would give the Soviets. The fact that you're dismissing the general consensus that the international community has come to after decades of investigation just to maintain your own narrative is pretty disappointing. America rightly draws criticism for their strong arm enforcement of "democratic values" through occupation, but you see no parallel to the USSR enforcing "Soviet values" through the same occupation strategy. You've got some massive blinders on. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) [–] krolden@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Oh no, they killed nazis??? Unforgivable!! permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (6 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (5 children) The Poles asked for their troops back when they were forming a USSR-based army and were told that thousands had mysteriously escaped. Then when asked for an official investigation, the Soviets broke ties with the Polish government in exile and made their own. The Soviets themselves later admitted it was the NKVD. Are you defending the USSR from its own slander? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Thanks for your effortposting BTW. I might not agree with your every take but it's good work regardless! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago But I do think we overall more agree than disagree Precisely; well put Also I can relate somewhat with the impulses and procrastination (tho it's ASD for me LOL), but especially the anxiety and am glad you are able to work on improving in that regard :) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] shoo@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) Per our other conversation, the Soviets were trading for German finished goods. Why would you not expect to find German goods here?? And again, the Soviets themselves admitted to it. Why are you even discussing forgeries? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) German-USSR trade was still ongoing in 1941. As part of that trade they did gain access to samples of German artillery, tanks and more. German companies were also known to export arms (in violation of the Versailles treaty) well before WWII. And even if you deny that, there were dozens of countries manufacturing arms and ammo in the German caliber because, get this, German guns were well designed! Dismissing all evidence that could put Soviets in a bad light, even when it's internal. Truly you are a Communist at heart. So let's put all that aside: capturing thousands of POWs and having them end up massacred in a ditch is acceptable? There's no fault attributable to them for having this happen to people in their control and under their protection? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago 1940 is the date Goebbels reported All of these were verified by the Red Cross and there are stacks of documents giving evidence and testimony to the contrary. But yes, I suppose if you throw out everything you don't like then any argument will get flimsy. Certainly we don't get "genuine analysis" as you put it. Further, again, the Soviet weaponry did not fire German ammunition. The NKVD was a police force, they were under no compulsion to use military issue weapons. There are other documented instances of them using foreign weapons, it's not out of the ordinary. This whole weapon discussion is circumstantial evidence at best, there are plenty of ways it could have happened. And of course Goebbels was eager to report it, it's very well documented in his own records that he was excited about the find and the bad PR it would give the Soviets. The fact that you're dismissing the general consensus that the international community has come to after decades of investigation just to maintain your own narrative is pretty disappointing. America rightly draws criticism for their strong arm enforcement of "democratic values" through occupation, but you see no parallel to the USSR enforcing "Soviet values" through the same occupation strategy. You've got some massive blinders on. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (5 children) The Poles asked for their troops back when they were forming a USSR-based army and were told that thousands had mysteriously escaped. Then when asked for an official investigation, the Soviets broke ties with the Polish government in exile and made their own. The Soviets themselves later admitted it was the NKVD. Are you defending the USSR from its own slander? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Thanks for your effortposting BTW. I might not agree with your every take but it's good work regardless! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago But I do think we overall more agree than disagree Precisely; well put Also I can relate somewhat with the impulses and procrastination (tho it's ASD for me LOL), but especially the anxiety and am glad you are able to work on improving in that regard :) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] shoo@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) Per our other conversation, the Soviets were trading for German finished goods. Why would you not expect to find German goods here?? And again, the Soviets themselves admitted to it. Why are you even discussing forgeries? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) German-USSR trade was still ongoing in 1941. As part of that trade they did gain access to samples of German artillery, tanks and more. German companies were also known to export arms (in violation of the Versailles treaty) well before WWII. And even if you deny that, there were dozens of countries manufacturing arms and ammo in the German caliber because, get this, German guns were well designed! Dismissing all evidence that could put Soviets in a bad light, even when it's internal. Truly you are a Communist at heart. So let's put all that aside: capturing thousands of POWs and having them end up massacred in a ditch is acceptable? There's no fault attributable to them for having this happen to people in their control and under their protection? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago 1940 is the date Goebbels reported All of these were verified by the Red Cross and there are stacks of documents giving evidence and testimony to the contrary. But yes, I suppose if you throw out everything you don't like then any argument will get flimsy. Certainly we don't get "genuine analysis" as you put it. Further, again, the Soviet weaponry did not fire German ammunition. The NKVD was a police force, they were under no compulsion to use military issue weapons. There are other documented instances of them using foreign weapons, it's not out of the ordinary. This whole weapon discussion is circumstantial evidence at best, there are plenty of ways it could have happened. And of course Goebbels was eager to report it, it's very well documented in his own records that he was excited about the find and the bad PR it would give the Soviets. The fact that you're dismissing the general consensus that the international community has come to after decades of investigation just to maintain your own narrative is pretty disappointing. America rightly draws criticism for their strong arm enforcement of "democratic values" through occupation, but you see no parallel to the USSR enforcing "Soviet values" through the same occupation strategy. You've got some massive blinders on. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Thanks for your effortposting BTW. I might not agree with your every take but it's good work regardless! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago But I do think we overall more agree than disagree Precisely; well put Also I can relate somewhat with the impulses and procrastination (tho it's ASD for me LOL), but especially the anxiety and am glad you are able to work on improving in that regard :) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) [–] shoo@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) Per our other conversation, the Soviets were trading for German finished goods. Why would you not expect to find German goods here?? And again, the Soviets themselves admitted to it. Why are you even discussing forgeries? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) German-USSR trade was still ongoing in 1941. As part of that trade they did gain access to samples of German artillery, tanks and more. German companies were also known to export arms (in violation of the Versailles treaty) well before WWII. And even if you deny that, there were dozens of countries manufacturing arms and ammo in the German caliber because, get this, German guns were well designed! Dismissing all evidence that could put Soviets in a bad light, even when it's internal. Truly you are a Communist at heart. So let's put all that aside: capturing thousands of POWs and having them end up massacred in a ditch is acceptable? There's no fault attributable to them for having this happen to people in their control and under their protection? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago 1940 is the date Goebbels reported All of these were verified by the Red Cross and there are stacks of documents giving evidence and testimony to the contrary. But yes, I suppose if you throw out everything you don't like then any argument will get flimsy. Certainly we don't get "genuine analysis" as you put it. Further, again, the Soviet weaponry did not fire German ammunition. The NKVD was a police force, they were under no compulsion to use military issue weapons. There are other documented instances of them using foreign weapons, it's not out of the ordinary. This whole weapon discussion is circumstantial evidence at best, there are plenty of ways it could have happened. And of course Goebbels was eager to report it, it's very well documented in his own records that he was excited about the find and the bad PR it would give the Soviets. The fact that you're dismissing the general consensus that the international community has come to after decades of investigation just to maintain your own narrative is pretty disappointing. America rightly draws criticism for their strong arm enforcement of "democratic values" through occupation, but you see no parallel to the USSR enforcing "Soviet values" through the same occupation strategy. You've got some massive blinders on. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) Thanks for your effortposting BTW. I might not agree with your every take but it's good work regardless! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago But I do think we overall more agree than disagree Precisely; well put Also I can relate somewhat with the impulses and procrastination (tho it's ASD for me LOL), but especially the anxiety and am glad you are able to work on improving in that regard :) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago But I do think we overall more agree than disagree Precisely; well put Also I can relate somewhat with the impulses and procrastination (tho it's ASD for me LOL), but especially the anxiety and am glad you are able to work on improving in that regard :) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago But I do think we overall more agree than disagree Precisely; well put Also I can relate somewhat with the impulses and procrastination (tho it's ASD for me LOL), but especially the anxiety and am glad you are able to work on improving in that regard :) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] shoo@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (2 children) Per our other conversation, the Soviets were trading for German finished goods. Why would you not expect to find German goods here?? And again, the Soviets themselves admitted to it. Why are you even discussing forgeries? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) German-USSR trade was still ongoing in 1941. As part of that trade they did gain access to samples of German artillery, tanks and more. German companies were also known to export arms (in violation of the Versailles treaty) well before WWII. And even if you deny that, there were dozens of countries manufacturing arms and ammo in the German caliber because, get this, German guns were well designed! Dismissing all evidence that could put Soviets in a bad light, even when it's internal. Truly you are a Communist at heart. So let's put all that aside: capturing thousands of POWs and having them end up massacred in a ditch is acceptable? There's no fault attributable to them for having this happen to people in their control and under their protection? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago 1940 is the date Goebbels reported All of these were verified by the Red Cross and there are stacks of documents giving evidence and testimony to the contrary. But yes, I suppose if you throw out everything you don't like then any argument will get flimsy. Certainly we don't get "genuine analysis" as you put it. Further, again, the Soviet weaponry did not fire German ammunition. The NKVD was a police force, they were under no compulsion to use military issue weapons. There are other documented instances of them using foreign weapons, it's not out of the ordinary. This whole weapon discussion is circumstantial evidence at best, there are plenty of ways it could have happened. And of course Goebbels was eager to report it, it's very well documented in his own records that he was excited about the find and the bad PR it would give the Soviets. The fact that you're dismissing the general consensus that the international community has come to after decades of investigation just to maintain your own narrative is pretty disappointing. America rightly draws criticism for their strong arm enforcement of "democratic values" through occupation, but you see no parallel to the USSR enforcing "Soviet values" through the same occupation strategy. You've got some massive blinders on. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) German-USSR trade was still ongoing in 1941. As part of that trade they did gain access to samples of German artillery, tanks and more. German companies were also known to export arms (in violation of the Versailles treaty) well before WWII. And even if you deny that, there were dozens of countries manufacturing arms and ammo in the German caliber because, get this, German guns were well designed! Dismissing all evidence that could put Soviets in a bad light, even when it's internal. Truly you are a Communist at heart. So let's put all that aside: capturing thousands of POWs and having them end up massacred in a ditch is acceptable? There's no fault attributable to them for having this happen to people in their control and under their protection? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago 1940 is the date Goebbels reported All of these were verified by the Red Cross and there are stacks of documents giving evidence and testimony to the contrary. But yes, I suppose if you throw out everything you don't like then any argument will get flimsy. Certainly we don't get "genuine analysis" as you put it. Further, again, the Soviet weaponry did not fire German ammunition. The NKVD was a police force, they were under no compulsion to use military issue weapons. There are other documented instances of them using foreign weapons, it's not out of the ordinary. This whole weapon discussion is circumstantial evidence at best, there are plenty of ways it could have happened. And of course Goebbels was eager to report it, it's very well documented in his own records that he was excited about the find and the bad PR it would give the Soviets. The fact that you're dismissing the general consensus that the international community has come to after decades of investigation just to maintain your own narrative is pretty disappointing. America rightly draws criticism for their strong arm enforcement of "democratic values" through occupation, but you see no parallel to the USSR enforcing "Soviet values" through the same occupation strategy. You've got some massive blinders on. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (1 child) German-USSR trade was still ongoing in 1941. As part of that trade they did gain access to samples of German artillery, tanks and more. German companies were also known to export arms (in violation of the Versailles treaty) well before WWII. And even if you deny that, there were dozens of countries manufacturing arms and ammo in the German caliber because, get this, German guns were well designed! Dismissing all evidence that could put Soviets in a bad light, even when it's internal. Truly you are a Communist at heart. So let's put all that aside: capturing thousands of POWs and having them end up massacred in a ditch is acceptable? There's no fault attributable to them for having this happen to people in their control and under their protection? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago 1940 is the date Goebbels reported All of these were verified by the Red Cross and there are stacks of documents giving evidence and testimony to the contrary. But yes, I suppose if you throw out everything you don't like then any argument will get flimsy. Certainly we don't get "genuine analysis" as you put it. Further, again, the Soviet weaponry did not fire German ammunition. The NKVD was a police force, they were under no compulsion to use military issue weapons. There are other documented instances of them using foreign weapons, it's not out of the ordinary. This whole weapon discussion is circumstantial evidence at best, there are plenty of ways it could have happened. And of course Goebbels was eager to report it, it's very well documented in his own records that he was excited about the find and the bad PR it would give the Soviets. The fact that you're dismissing the general consensus that the international community has come to after decades of investigation just to maintain your own narrative is pretty disappointing. America rightly draws criticism for their strong arm enforcement of "democratic values" through occupation, but you see no parallel to the USSR enforcing "Soviet values" through the same occupation strategy. You've got some massive blinders on. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago 1940 is the date Goebbels reported All of these were verified by the Red Cross and there are stacks of documents giving evidence and testimony to the contrary. But yes, I suppose if you throw out everything you don't like then any argument will get flimsy. Certainly we don't get "genuine analysis" as you put it. Further, again, the Soviet weaponry did not fire German ammunition. The NKVD was a police force, they were under no compulsion to use military issue weapons. There are other documented instances of them using foreign weapons, it's not out of the ordinary. This whole weapon discussion is circumstantial evidence at best, there are plenty of ways it could have happened. And of course Goebbels was eager to report it, it's very well documented in his own records that he was excited about the find and the bad PR it would give the Soviets. The fact that you're dismissing the general consensus that the international community has come to after decades of investigation just to maintain your own narrative is pretty disappointing. America rightly draws criticism for their strong arm enforcement of "democratic values" through occupation, but you see no parallel to the USSR enforcing "Soviet values" through the same occupation strategy. You've got some massive blinders on. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] shoo@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago 1940 is the date Goebbels reported All of these were verified by the Red Cross and there are stacks of documents giving evidence and testimony to the contrary. But yes, I suppose if you throw out everything you don't like then any argument will get flimsy. Certainly we don't get "genuine analysis" as you put it. Further, again, the Soviet weaponry did not fire German ammunition. The NKVD was a police force, they were under no compulsion to use military issue weapons. There are other documented instances of them using foreign weapons, it's not out of the ordinary. This whole weapon discussion is circumstantial evidence at best, there are plenty of ways it could have happened. And of course Goebbels was eager to report it, it's very well documented in his own records that he was excited about the find and the bad PR it would give the Soviets. The fact that you're dismissing the general consensus that the international community has come to after decades of investigation just to maintain your own narrative is pretty disappointing. America rightly draws criticism for their strong arm enforcement of "democratic values" through occupation, but you see no parallel to the USSR enforcing "Soviet values" through the same occupation strategy. You've got some massive blinders on. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] krolden@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago Oh no, they killed nazis??? Unforgivable!! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] matmarspace@programming.dev -3 points 1 year ago (5 children) Yes! Of course it was. 100%! No denying of that. :) I was rather referring to the so called "liberation of Poland" by the Soviets and all the things that happened afterwards. The puppet government of People's Republic of Poland and all the other things. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] vfreire85@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago* i remember a pic of an arse-faced woman showing the monthly ration provided to her by the state in poland, as if saying "look at this misery". probably the pic was shot in the early 80s. when i first saw that the first thing that came to my mind is that, in northeastern brazil (my home region), around the same time, about 1.5 million people died of starvation and malnutrition during the drought of 1977-83, and many would literally give an arm or a leg for that ration. permalink fedilink source parent [–] matmarspace@programming.dev -3 points 1 year ago* (3 children) Well... I'm not a fan of communism so in my opinion of course will differ. Nevertheless I think it was net negative especially because of personal freedoms (or lack there of), censorship, police brutality etc., but I totally agree that it was far better than Nazi occupation. Of course it was. It was peace time finally after all. History isn't black and white so there were some good things from PRL (polish acronym for People's Republic of Poland). Free education, healthcare and mass construction of public housing were some of the good ones that to this day make our lives in Poland better (the prefabricated housing especially in my opinion) but I think it could have been done without all the atrocities inflicted by the puppet government if only Poland was independent after the war and not under the de facto Soviet occupation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago If you have an open mind and have ~3 minutes, I can recommend this short clip from a Michael Parenti lecture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSpVB_XXXBQ Further "reading" if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeVs6t3vdjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npkeecCErQc permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] matmarspace@programming.dev -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) That's understandable. By the way in my opinion much of the anti-sentiment towards communism in Polish society today comes from all the bad stuff the PRL government did so maybe if that didn't happen the outlook on it today would be different. For example as a strong free speech advocate I think it's a shame that today in Poland "promoting communism" is prohibited by law (it's not even a normal legislation but it's enshrined in the constitution). I personally think that shouldn't be the case. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] matmarspace@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago Thanks for the discussion. Have a good day my friend :) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (5 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] vfreire85@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago* i remember a pic of an arse-faced woman showing the monthly ration provided to her by the state in poland, as if saying "look at this misery". probably the pic was shot in the early 80s. when i first saw that the first thing that came to my mind is that, in northeastern brazil (my home region), around the same time, about 1.5 million people died of starvation and malnutrition during the drought of 1977-83, and many would literally give an arm or a leg for that ration. permalink fedilink source parent [–] matmarspace@programming.dev -3 points 1 year ago* (3 children) Well... I'm not a fan of communism so in my opinion of course will differ. Nevertheless I think it was net negative especially because of personal freedoms (or lack there of), censorship, police brutality etc., but I totally agree that it was far better than Nazi occupation. Of course it was. It was peace time finally after all. History isn't black and white so there were some good things from PRL (polish acronym for People's Republic of Poland). Free education, healthcare and mass construction of public housing were some of the good ones that to this day make our lives in Poland better (the prefabricated housing especially in my opinion) but I think it could have been done without all the atrocities inflicted by the puppet government if only Poland was independent after the war and not under the de facto Soviet occupation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago If you have an open mind and have ~3 minutes, I can recommend this short clip from a Michael Parenti lecture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSpVB_XXXBQ Further "reading" if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeVs6t3vdjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npkeecCErQc permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] matmarspace@programming.dev -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) That's understandable. By the way in my opinion much of the anti-sentiment towards communism in Polish society today comes from all the bad stuff the PRL government did so maybe if that didn't happen the outlook on it today would be different. For example as a strong free speech advocate I think it's a shame that today in Poland "promoting communism" is prohibited by law (it's not even a normal legislation but it's enshrined in the constitution). I personally think that shouldn't be the case. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] matmarspace@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago Thanks for the discussion. Have a good day my friend :) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] vfreire85@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago* i remember a pic of an arse-faced woman showing the monthly ration provided to her by the state in poland, as if saying "look at this misery". probably the pic was shot in the early 80s. when i first saw that the first thing that came to my mind is that, in northeastern brazil (my home region), around the same time, about 1.5 million people died of starvation and malnutrition during the drought of 1977-83, and many would literally give an arm or a leg for that ration. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] matmarspace@programming.dev -3 points 1 year ago* (3 children) Well... I'm not a fan of communism so in my opinion of course will differ. Nevertheless I think it was net negative especially because of personal freedoms (or lack there of), censorship, police brutality etc., but I totally agree that it was far better than Nazi occupation. Of course it was. It was peace time finally after all. History isn't black and white so there were some good things from PRL (polish acronym for People's Republic of Poland). Free education, healthcare and mass construction of public housing were some of the good ones that to this day make our lives in Poland better (the prefabricated housing especially in my opinion) but I think it could have been done without all the atrocities inflicted by the puppet government if only Poland was independent after the war and not under the de facto Soviet occupation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago If you have an open mind and have ~3 minutes, I can recommend this short clip from a Michael Parenti lecture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSpVB_XXXBQ Further "reading" if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeVs6t3vdjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npkeecCErQc permalink fedilink source parent [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] matmarspace@programming.dev -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) That's understandable. By the way in my opinion much of the anti-sentiment towards communism in Polish society today comes from all the bad stuff the PRL government did so maybe if that didn't happen the outlook on it today would be different. For example as a strong free speech advocate I think it's a shame that today in Poland "promoting communism" is prohibited by law (it's not even a normal legislation but it's enshrined in the constitution). I personally think that shouldn't be the case. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] matmarspace@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago Thanks for the discussion. Have a good day my friend :) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies) load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago If you have an open mind and have ~3 minutes, I can recommend this short clip from a Michael Parenti lecture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSpVB_XXXBQ Further "reading" if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeVs6t3vdjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npkeecCErQc permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago (2 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] matmarspace@programming.dev -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) That's understandable. By the way in my opinion much of the anti-sentiment towards communism in Polish society today comes from all the bad stuff the PRL government did so maybe if that didn't happen the outlook on it today would be different. For example as a strong free speech advocate I think it's a shame that today in Poland "promoting communism" is prohibited by law (it's not even a normal legislation but it's enshrined in the constitution). I personally think that shouldn't be the case. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] matmarspace@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago Thanks for the discussion. Have a good day my friend :) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[–] matmarspace@programming.dev -1 points 1 year ago (1 child) That's understandable. By the way in my opinion much of the anti-sentiment towards communism in Polish society today comes from all the bad stuff the PRL government did so maybe if that didn't happen the outlook on it today would be different. For example as a strong free speech advocate I think it's a shame that today in Poland "promoting communism" is prohibited by law (it's not even a normal legislation but it's enshrined in the constitution). I personally think that shouldn't be the case. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] matmarspace@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago Thanks for the discussion. Have a good day my friend :) permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (-1 replies)
[+] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] matmarspace@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago Thanks for the discussion. Have a good day my friend :) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] matmarspace@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago Thanks for the discussion. Have a good day my friend :) permalink fedilink source parent