I know, I KNOW, we are omnivores (you, me, maybe not our llm friends, but most of us)... but that doesn't quite line up with biological necessity.

I would argue we are facultative omnivores, but obligate carnivores. We can eat plants for efficiency (famines and whatnot), but they are not necessary for life. Meat, however, is necessary - at the very least we would have b vitamin deficiencies without meat, and babies wouldn't develop into healthy humans without it.

People will argue, and i love you all for it, that maybe this applies historically but in the modern food environment we can engineer our way out of this obligation - sure, that's true, but when speaking of our species appropriate and native diet - we would still be obligate carnivores

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[–] 3 points 12 hours ago (4 children)

Which is prior to the rise of the first fixed settlements, from which agriculture started. During that period, humans survived off the land, hunting and gathering what they could. It is an established fact. Nonetheless, there have been findings supporting that prior to domestication, humans already gathered and consumed wild grains and other foods sourced from plants.

I am not a survival expert but I am aware there are food sources available throughout the entire year, for those who know it.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 child)

    And they didn't eat those things except as flavourings for their meat, medicines, or emergency food when the hunt failed

    No one ate much plant matter except for the week when local fruit fruited until they settled into villages around farms when agriculture reached western Europe 4000 years ago. My ancestors are from that region, grain intolerance is common in that population as we haven't had it long. Cabbage is fine as we had that before we started farming it

    Things are like that all over the world, people got agriculture 10kya (kiloyears ago) in Egypt through 200 years ago for the first contacted indigenous Australians, to not yet for some uncontacted tribes.

    The less time since introduction of high dosage of plants and the poisons they carry on introduction of agriculture the less will those populations handle those plants. And none of us handle them as well as a herbivore. At best you use extra vitamins and iron to detoxify the plants you eat, at worst you're intolerant.

    The only food reliably available in snowy conditions is meat

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  • [–] 2 points 5 hours ago

    And they didn't eat those things except as flavourings for their meat, medicines, or emergency food when the hunt failed.

    Such a marginal consumption would not leave relevant record in fossil findings.

    No one ate much plant matter except for the week when local fruit fruited until they settled into villages around farms when agriculture reached western Europe 4000 years ago.

    There are enough findings pointing to the collection and consumption, by humans, going back to 100.000 year.

    My ancestors are from that region, grain intolerance is common in that population as we haven't had it long. Cabbage is fine as we had that before we started farming it

    Where? I'm in Portugal and there is no specific intolerance to grains in our population.

    Brassica plants are harder to digest than cereals, even when cooked. Much of the fiber passes through the digestive tract untouched. The nutrients extracted from it are mostly water soluble and only after cooking.

    Things are like that all over the world, people got agriculture 10kya (kiloyears ago) in Egypt through 200 years ago for the first contacted indigenous Australians, to not yet for some uncontacted tribes.

    The indigenous populations of Australia already practiced a form of agriculture prior to colonial establishment in the region. Many areas used for that sort of farming was destroyed by the introduction of animals brought by europeans and that caused serious conflicts between the settlers and indigenous people.

    The less time since introduction of high dosage of plants and the poisons they carry on introduction of agriculture the less will those populations handle those plants. And none of us handle them as well as a herbivore. At best you use extra vitamins and iron to detoxify the plants you eat, at worst you're intolerant.

    I can't find it now but there is a protocol developed by early peoples and still used today, to a degree, to test new potential food sources. Early humans were not more stupid than we are today and no food source was added without careful experimentation.

    I can't understand the use of "detoxify" in this context. Most potentially harmful substances in plants used for human consumption are usually removed through preparation and cooking. Genetic intolerances are not derived from toxic substances in the plants.

    The only food reliably available in snowy conditions is meat

    Majorly, yes. Other sources can be found but are not as calorie dense and the effort required to harvest it can make it calorie negative.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 child)

    The wild grains would have been very different from today's, though, and the plants would have been too. Far less appetizing, I'd imagine. There is carbon/nitrogen isotope testing that shows that our distant predecessors also subsisted off roots and tubers.

    I don't have a point to make, just wondering out loud.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 hours ago

    The wild grains would have been very different from today's, though, and the plants would have been too.

    Yes, for most of them. Today's carrots are very different from the original crops, as an easy example. Even the predominant colour wasn't as such until a couple of centuries ago.

    Far less appetizing, I'd imagine.

    Can we agree that is at best very subjective to answer?

    It doesn't require much effort to find everyday food items that have changed wildly in its palatability over the course of one or two generations. Not processed foods; basic food items.

    There is carbon/nitrogen isotope testing that shows that our distant predecessors also subsisted off roots and tubers.

    And we still do. Our ancestors got that right. Potatoes, kassava and taro are good examples of that.

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