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Why blue WA voted to ban trans athletes from girls sports (www.seattletimes.com)
submitted 2 days ago by to c/politics@lemmy.world
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Opponents say [Washington state] voters were persuaded at least partly because the initiative and its boosters exploited deep-seated prejudices and misunderstandings about transgender people to erode their rights.

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[–] 1 point 1 day ago (18 children)

It’s really not that difficult to understand. I’m very liberal but if I was a parent of a teenage girl, I would also be worried about the size and muscle difference in a teenage boy that has just started transitioning. But I also don’t think anyone should be banned from playing sports just because they are transgender. The easiest solution in my mind is just make weight divisions like they do in wrestling for example.

My boy wrestled in high school and I would have been just as concerned with him wrestling some of those “grown ass men” in high school.

Remove gender requirements and make weight classes, maybe weight and size limits, or maybe just an open division if the participants/parents aren’t worried for any sport that someone might get hurt because of the size difference.

There isn’t a perfect solution but I do understand the concern.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago (7 children)

    This would hold some validity in contact sports, much less so in all the other sports. I wouldn't be concerned about my kid's welfare in a swimming competition, for instance.

    But that requires nuance.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (6 children)

    No, I wouldn’t be concerned about my kids welfare in something like swimming. Basically any sport you are essentially competing against yourself: golf, track, diving, etc.

    I also don’t believe there are many contact girl sports so I’m not sure it even matters that much. Basketball maybe?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (3 children)

    Then what exactly is the point of your post? The only things you mention are wrestling, size and muscle difference between boys (and therefore transitioning girls who aren't taking hormones) and girls, wrestling, and weight classes (which are typically used in contact sports). Only one of those has factors that aren't solely issues with contact sports, but the tone of your post implies physical risk, and size/weight would only matter in that context in contact sports, too.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    I’m am not for laws like this first and foremost. I am just trying to point out why people would vote for something like this. My point is there is a perceived advantage for men transitioning to female. And apparently, post puberty there is some scientific data to back this up. I am not saying it is true. I am saying there is some data. And I think the only legitimate argument is that because of some of these perceived physical advantages, anything where the safety of the participants comes into question is a basis for separation. Any non-contact sport should just be allowed. Some cis girls are going to be genetically superior than other cis curls. And the same goes for transgender girls. There is always going to be someone bigger, better, stronger regardless of anything else. I don’t live in that state, I do not have teenage girls, so I am not arguing one side or the other.

    If I did have teenage girls, as I said in a previous statement, I’d be like fuck it, let everyone compete. If someone is better than you, and there will always be someone better, work harder, train harder.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    First: part of the point of sports in secondary education is team building. Not every kid wants to play football, as much as they want to play football in their school team with their friends and classmates.

    Second, most schools do not have the populations to support more than a handful of teams for the most popular sports, and a single team for less popular sports. This could work for individual sports, like track or swimming, but basketball and baseball might struggle.

    Third: where do you draw the lines? This is a solvable question if Informed by the first 2, but it raises blood pressure.

    I have no personal stake in this. I didn't know I was trans in school. I when I played sports, I played on the boys teams. But the question I come back to is: are trans girls......girls?

    If they are, what is the problem? We don't ban tall girls from girls basketball. We don't ban strong girls from girls wrestling. We celebrate them. Should Michael phelps have his medals revoked because he clearly has natural advantages in swimming?

    The whole controversy is only a controversy if you don't actually think we are the gender we say we are.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    I understand the point. And yes everyone should be allowed to participate. I am just playing devils advocate and understanding why parents think this way. Hell I wouldn’t let my own kid play football regardless. It’s brutal. Well full contact tackle. Flag football was really fun in college. And the population problem is always a problem with small schools. I transferred for a tiny high school in WV to a giant school in NC and was floored by some of the sports they had. I don’t even know you could have a high school swim team or golf.

    There isn’t a perfect easy solution. If I had a little girl in high school athletics, I’d be like fuck it, play whatever. If another player is better than you, transgender or not, get better. Train harder. As an adult life is hard. Nothing is fair. What we really should be banning is the rich kids, they’re the ones with the true advantages 😂

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (5 children)

    So you'd vote for mandatory genital inspections for girls? Because thats what this vote did.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    No. Absolutely not. If you had actually read my reply the most intrusive check would be stepping on a scale.

    I never said I agreed with the law, just empathized with the concern.

    People need to understand both sides of an argument and the nuance associated with it. Not immediately jump into fully armored social justice warrior.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (3 children)

    I read your reply, but disagree with the concern parents have being valid, because its unfounded. There is no scientifically backed proof of trans individuals having an advantage in sports, and trans kids getting gender affirming care are often placed on hormone blockers. The hormones involved in teenagers also wildly fluctuate. I agree with the premise of weight class, but the "concern" parents have about their little girl playing against a big scary "man" with teenage testosterone muscles (their words, not yours, before you say I'm putting words in your mouth) is fueled by misinformation about trans individuals, gender affirming care, and the amount of impact these individuals even have in sports. and as a result we now have genital inspections for kids.

    I dont think people falling for fearmongering is a valid concern, and I think we shouldn't be coddling this kind of concern any more than we should tolerate racist concerns.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    Most of the transgender people I have run into were adults that transitioned later in life and that is what most people are exposed to. After puberty, transition is a completely different experience. And yes there are studies that talk about the advantages transitioning post puberty.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12312191

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40820509/

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8311086

    Several of these studies show that estrogen and testosterone suppression generally reduce lean mass, muscle size, and some strength measures. However, the evidence is not consistent about how completely those measures converge with those of cisgender women. The last link found that some muscle and strength differences persisted after hormone treatment, including in studies extending to three years.

    So no this is not fear mongering.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 day ago

    Weird, gross comments about women's bodies you find icky. We already had a system in place for women like us and it was dismantled by morons. Transition isn't a "completely different experience" post puberty for fucks sake.

    Cis people are so gross

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  • [–] 0 points 16 hours ago*

    Your daughter wouldn't be playing with boys. She would be playing with trans girls who have undergone the same estrogen-dominated puberty she did. Have you seen some of these protests? You have dozens of adults screaming at a trans high school girl who you couldn't even pick out of the lineup as "the trans one" without it being pointed out in advance. Imagine a regular girls team, except there are a dozen parents screaming at this one random girl who looks no different and plays no different from her peers. But these monsters believe she is forever cursed with the stain of masculinity, thus she must be destroyed.

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