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can we shout out to the fediverse developers, for making the fediverse possible (thelemmy.club)
submitted 1 day ago by to c/fediverse@lemmy.world
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shout out to the lemmy developers for not making us be stuck on the other site

shout out to mastodon devs for making us have a better life than on Twitter

shout out to the pixelfed devs for allowing a actual photography platform to exist

shout out to the peertube devs for helping us not be stuck on youtube until the end of time

ETA: Shout out to the server operators who make the stuff be done

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[–] 17 points 1 day ago* (17 children)

Well, the lemmy devs are transphobic and the piefed dev Rimu is a bit of a jerk with additional accusations of a censorship list after a huge blowup surrounding a front-end called tesseract. There's other posts about it there during that same time frame.

It's a big reason I switched to quokka.au as it uses a fork of piefed called PyLova which I find to be stable and good and the developer is way nicer.

Edit: to be more clear, Tesseract was developed by someone else and that person snuck a secret censorship list into their project. While Rimu's filter was only slightly less problematic, it had a checkbox at least, it was very unclear what it actually did and caused a huge (well deserved) fuss.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 day ago* (9 children)

    I've seen the accusation about transphobia before, but never seen a link. In the link you provide there is a lot of talk about transphobia. Some ragebating and people saying one of the devs is a transphobe. But I don't see a dev saying something transphobic in the first 50 posts I read. I am a communist. I left .world for .ml because of them blocking hexbear. I do however also find transphobia highly problematic

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  • [–] 12 points 1 day ago (6 children)

    There's a screen shot of what Nutomic said in the post I linked.

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  • [–] 3 points 15 hours ago (5 children)

    That doesnt't seem transphobic only uninformed and like a shitty analysis

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  • [–] 1 point 14 hours ago (4 children)

    Let's not dismiss this bigotry as being simply uninformed. Someone that is making such a grand statement about us and using TERF language would likely disagree with you about how informed they are.

    But I do agree with you about the statement being a shitty analysis.

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  • [–] 2 points 13 hours ago (3 children)

    In the thread under the screenshot, there is another screenshot from where Nutomic explain, that the topic was clearly more complicated than they had understood earlier and they did not want to discuss it further.

    Unless people give me reason to do otherwise I will keep seeing people as trying to do the best they can with what they got. Otherwise it would not be worth discussing at all. That is to say I choose to believe he has learned a thing or two. Especially because the there are several safe communities on lemmy.ml

    But in the end I think what irks me about the entire discussion is the fact that someone tried to make a positive post about community the people enabling it and the first thing that happens are people throwing shit at the people making us even being able to have this discussion.

    I do however choose to believe that people get offended and get knee jerk reactions because we are so used to the ton shit the internet hurls at us as soon as we open a browser. And thus that there actually is something to discuss in good fate.

    That is why I read the thread about Nutomic stupid microblog (admittedly not in detail, most of it was just people with opinions) and that is why I chose to comment. Some people have stupid takes for various good reasons e.g. bad education. That is not the real problem, the problems start if they are unwilling to try to nuance that view or accept it is possible to see things differently. We all can get stubborn or be too indoctrinated to see through stuff, but the real problems start if people double down on criticism, or if they start acting on shitty takes or worldviews. That is not what I am seeing here.

    I've written this to get my head straight about the situation, but I hope whoever read this far down the thread can use this for something.

    And finally. Thank you dear developers, hosts, admins, mods, programmers and posters for making the Fediverse a real alternative to Reddit and in time hopefully to all our incorporated social media. If a contributor asks for support please support them if you can.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 hours ago* (2 children)

    It would be one thing if he actually tried to understand why what he said was "controversial" and made a real attempt to apologize instead of throwing up his hands and insisting he didn't want to talk about it anymore.

    This reminds me of the bigoted people that espouse their shitty opinions and then refuse to discuss it further when they realize what they are saying maybe sucks a lot.

    Telling me that ML has trans communities is akin to the racist that says "But I have a friend that's black!"

    In my opininion the developer got upset that his shitty opinions were going to cost them donations and tried to half-ass walk it back.

    I fear you and I will never see eye to eye on this, and that's ok. I won't judge you for your opinion and I thank you for being level headed during this discussion. But sadly I remain unconvinced that the developer actually learned anything from this experience other than being more careful next time to not say things that suck.

    🩷

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  • [–] 1 point 10 hours ago (1 child)

    And now we have come to an impassé. There is no easy way to find out if you are right about Nutomic has changed his mind and only have backed down for convience. I can say once again, that I haven't seen anything else pointing in that direction, but that won't persuade you.

    I do understand fear of prosecution. I will never ever tell anyone not to listen to that fear. Sadly that has turned out to be dangerous at times. Safety and feeling secure always comes first. Transphobia as well as many other kinds of hatred exist and sometimes thrive among the very people who should have felt like home. I cannot remove that fear from you, I can only tell you that I haven't seen bigotry on lemmy.ml unless you count that one microblog, and I obviously don't.

    It also makes me sad that you, you fear me, but I get a feeling that I cannot change that neither. I am a little allergic to bullshit, but I don't see that from you and that is why I am trying to formulate something instead of just leaving it at that. I don't think you are fair in comparing me to racists and I am sorry that you don't feel safe on lemmy.ml

    Since this is the internet and no one has no clue on what is going on on the other side of the screen I will just ask you to consider that people are people, weak, prone to mistakes and opinionated. Sometimes it actually helps to talk instead of judging. I know it fucking sucks and it can be so draining. And a lot of times it is a waste of effort. But I do believe that we as humans are strongest because of our differences if we are able to understand each other despite them. I take it that most people on lemmy.ml are socialists and computer geeks. I mean its mainly an instance about computers and IT politics. I also believe that socialists strive to be open-minded, failing as we sometimes are, because our very ideology is built upon the idea that every human being is a thing to be treasured and that we are all equal. Once again I am not asking you to do anything, but maybe consider your views once in a while and I promise you I will try to do the same.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 hours ago

    I wasn't trying to compare you with racists, I could have worded that sentence better. I meant that just having the existence of trans coms on his instance isn't some kind of shield for his comments and lack of apology. There is no clear statement that I have seen from him that he really understood that what he said was harmful. Instead he delivered a cop out response and literally said he didn't want to talk about it anymore. That statement was in no way a recanting of his previous statement, and it is pretty clear to me that he learned nothing and just wanted the controversy that he stirred up to go away.

    I find it sad that you would go to such lengths to defend this so I'm sorry but I'll have to block you now. You've made your opinion clear and it's not congruent with the reality of the situation.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    You can literally see the screenshot where they say being transgender is actually a bourgeoisie conspiracy. Like full on denying trans people’s lived experiences for thousands of years, and in the same breath pretending people like Elon and JK Rowling aren’t pushing transphobia.

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  • [–] 3 points 15 hours ago

    Yeah I've seen the screenshot, it's a lazy take and reeks of lack of knowledge but it doesn't seem transphobic.

    If we are trying to get to a better and more enlightened future, there are a lot of people we do not agree with we have to meet with dialogue instead of judgement.

    I am not talking about forgiving og listening to people like Rowling. I am talking about showing would be comrades a more nuanced way of seeing the world instead of writing them off.

    That road always leads to a smaller and smaller select group that see the true way forward, but having a harder and harder time talking to anyone else. Eventually the group gets so small and isolated it doesn't means anything at all.

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  • [+] -8 points 1 day ago (5 children)

    Nah, I know a bunch of the people on that ban list and they all spread the hoax claiming that Piefed has a hardcoded block list.

    See, the censorship list you're talking about doesn't exist. It just blocked auto-import by admins of communities with certain words in the name. So it only affected admins, not users. If you're not an admin, it didn't affect you. I'm an admin, I unchecked the box because I knew what I was doing.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago* (4 children)

    Well if I'm wrong about how that list worked then I apologize but Rimu also supposedly took code from the fork and failed to attribute it until he was called out about that too. It wasn't only the blocking thing that upset me, it was also the code misappropriation and the childish ban spree.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago

    You aren't wrong, it's gone through many itterations from the initial block. Even now it's still the initial config hidden to users. Hell Grail is even saying it's still there but only idiots would keep it on. (ironic considering it's Rimu's default and piefed.socials setup)

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  • [–] 2 points 19 hours ago

    If you talk about the matrix screenshot, there is this line from Rimu : "imagine that i do a post about lemmy blabla...". This line refers to a post from Mia where she did an announcement and Rimu wasn't happy about it. He considered it was Piefed appropriation.

    It was also part of the conflict along false accusation of piefed being anti-trans. We did ask blahaj what feature would they like, added trans flag...

    The main problem with Rimu is its behaviour that led to its ban spree. Most of people on Matrix won't say anything about it, they know but they remain quiet and stay here because they use piefed and support it.

    It wasn't the first time. At the beggining of Piefed (2 year ago) Rimu banned Rikudo's instance. Because Rikudo instance at that time suffered from spam. Rikudo wasn't happy about the defed and wrote something on Piefed on fediseer.

    So I reached Rikudo and did the mediation and they worked together. I tried with Ada/Pugjesus. Mia/Rimu...

    When there was the shitstorm about the local IA used for moderation by dbz0, i really hoped that the explanation from dbzer0 would calm things down. I hoped that Rimu would recognize that he was wrong about its analysis. And then maybe they would continue together.

    For me, we lost plenty contributors and people.

    You have also to take into account mysticmushroom ban spree for zionism and how dbzer0 reacted.

    And then there are people that perpetue fedidrama on yptb or even here, on a post where we should support the fediverse. That was my message that everyone missed on yptb.

    If we want to continue, we have to move on. It doesn't erase the past, but recalling those events, behaviour impact the relationship we have between each other.

    It polarizes our relationship, and may make newcomers leave. So i think we have to move on and support what we love.

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  • [–] 1 point 20 hours ago (1 child)

    (I'm a different person than who you were responding to earlier)

    Those other things that you mention here are validated, however the "hard-coded blocklist" was demonstrably disproven. I suggest removing it from your comment because it only complicates the matter to mix in lies with the truth. There are a bunch of valid reasons to criticize PieFed over, we don't need to spread misinformation muddying the issues.

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  • [–] 4 points 16 hours ago

    I'm not convinced that what I said about that checkbox was misinformation. I remember the checkbox situation, I remember thinking it was weird, and I read enough posts from various instances at the time from multiple people that lead me to believe that it wasn't all that great and there was ambiguity about Rimu's motives for including it. Furthermore, his response about it wasn't convincing. So I'm not going to acquise and change my original post. Even in this thread there's no actual agreement on the subject. I understand you are trying to help, but what I said wasn't specifically a lie. Thanks for your comment.

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